I am loading for my 45 now and have a question. I have tried Bullseye 5.0-- 5.1-- 5.3 and 5.5 grains with 230 grain FMJ, Tula primer at 1.260 OAL. There are powder burns on one side of all the cases about 1/3 of the way down. Also the accuracy is not the best with any of these. I see no signs of over pressure. Anyone have an opinion or suggestion about these loads.
45 ACP question
- Thread starter Cliff1000
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blarby
Member
First off, welcome to THR !
I don't use a lot of bullseye, the guys that do will be along shortly.
Some powder burning is normal. If its excessive, you may be overcrimping in all but that area, or seating bullets a little crooked.
according to my manuals, 5.0-5.4 is really on the light side. You have a little room to go in powder charge to find more accuracy and a better, more complete burn. Many powder in 45ACP won't reach their full potential until right up near the max loading.
BE safe, have fun !
I don't use a lot of bullseye, the guys that do will be along shortly.
Some powder burning is normal. If its excessive, you may be overcrimping in all but that area, or seating bullets a little crooked.
according to my manuals, 5.0-5.4 is really on the light side. You have a little room to go in powder charge to find more accuracy and a better, more complete burn. Many powder in 45ACP won't reach their full potential until right up near the max loading.
BE safe, have fun !
First, ash on the outside of the case ONLY indicates that the pressure is too low for the case to expand and seal the chamber. It has nothing to do with crimp and everything to do with powder charge weight and COL. Do not shorten COL to increase pressure--use 0.2gn or more powder.
If your accuracy is poor in .45ACP, it has NOTHING to do with the soot on the case. Your gun may not like Bullseye. Your gun may not like 230gn bullets or just that particular bullet. Did you fire over a rest at a distance of about 25 yards to actually be able to evaluate accuracy?
Try some 231/HP38 or AA2. Try 185 or 200gn bullets.
COL in manuals is the minimum COL that the data applies to--it is NOT a recommendation for the reloader.
As Ramshot and Accurate put in their loading manuals:
SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”
It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.
The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.
This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as
1) magazine length (space),
2) freebore-lead dimensions of the barrel,
3) ogive or profile of the projectile
and
4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.
• Always begin loading at the minimum "Start Load".
• Increase in 2% increments towards the Maximum Load.
• Watch for signs of excessive pressure.
• Never exceed the Maximum Load.
All of these things are covered in your reloading manuals.
If your accuracy is poor in .45ACP, it has NOTHING to do with the soot on the case. Your gun may not like Bullseye. Your gun may not like 230gn bullets or just that particular bullet. Did you fire over a rest at a distance of about 25 yards to actually be able to evaluate accuracy?
Try some 231/HP38 or AA2. Try 185 or 200gn bullets.
COL in manuals is the minimum COL that the data applies to--it is NOT a recommendation for the reloader.
As Ramshot and Accurate put in their loading manuals:
SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”
It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.
The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.
This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as
1) magazine length (space),
2) freebore-lead dimensions of the barrel,
3) ogive or profile of the projectile
and
4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.
• Always begin loading at the minimum "Start Load".
• Increase in 2% increments towards the Maximum Load.
• Watch for signs of excessive pressure.
• Never exceed the Maximum Load.
All of these things are covered in your reloading manuals.
The powder burn on the cases is fairly normal. The .45 ACP is low pressure and as an auto caliber the case is being extracted shortly after being fired, after a short delay of course.
How much powder burn is dependent on the powder, the charge weight, and the bullet weight, as well as seating depth. basically it is nothing to worry about unless it is excessive. Doesn't sound like it is.
W-231 works great with 230 Gr FMJ in .45. (But so does Bullseye) With a 230 Gr FMJ loaded at 1.260 to 1.265 try 5.0 W-231 for a practice/plinker load, and 5.5 Grs W-231 for a full power load. If this does not shoot well, it almost certainly is not the load.
Sometimes a gun won't like a certain bullet, and trying something else, even another brand 230 Gr FMJ, can yield better results.
200 Gr SWCs are very popular for plinking/target shooting because of their accuracy potential.
Welcome to THR.
How much powder burn is dependent on the powder, the charge weight, and the bullet weight, as well as seating depth. basically it is nothing to worry about unless it is excessive. Doesn't sound like it is.
W-231 works great with 230 Gr FMJ in .45. (But so does Bullseye) With a 230 Gr FMJ loaded at 1.260 to 1.265 try 5.0 W-231 for a practice/plinker load, and 5.5 Grs W-231 for a full power load. If this does not shoot well, it almost certainly is not the load.
Sometimes a gun won't like a certain bullet, and trying something else, even another brand 230 Gr FMJ, can yield better results.
200 Gr SWCs are very popular for plinking/target shooting because of their accuracy potential.
Welcome to THR.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
As said above, a charge of 5.5gr W231 under any 230gr bullet with an OAL of 1.260" to 1.265" is a great .45 Auto load. It's my favorite and most loaded .45 Auto load. However, I use mostly CCI primers and have never tried Tula primers. It's possible those primers have something to do with the powder burns on your cases. (but only possibly) Also like said above, some burning on the case sides is normal and nothing to worry about.
Welcome to the forum...
Welcome to the forum...
Just getting started in loading again after a long absence. I could use some feedback on a similar load I worked up this week.
Berry plated 230 gr. roundnose bullets. I loaded 50 rounds with 4.5 gr Bullseye and 50 with 4.7 gr. Bullseye. OAL for all is 1.257. moderate to heavy taper crimp on all of them. I just want a plinking load that does not approach maximum pressure that would damage the plated bullets. Comments?
Berry plated 230 gr. roundnose bullets. I loaded 50 rounds with 4.5 gr Bullseye and 50 with 4.7 gr. Bullseye. OAL for all is 1.257. moderate to heavy taper crimp on all of them. I just want a plinking load that does not approach maximum pressure that would damage the plated bullets. Comments?
EBShooting
Member
I typically run 5.0gr of bullseye and COAL of 1.270. never had any issues. Brass shows no signs of pressure or ash on the outside.
But this reminds me, I am almost out of 45 reloads. Time to hit the reloader.
Eric
But this reminds me, I am almost out of 45 reloads. Time to hit the reloader.
Eric
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Don't apply too heavy a crimp because 45's headspace on the mouth of the case. You should only apply enough crimp to remove the belling you added to seat the bullet without shaving.
Fishslayer
Member
What sort of bullet are you using? Is it a true FMJ or a plated bullet?
I've found that plated bullets tend to really start to spread out at about 4.8gr of Bullseye.
5gr of Bullseye is a very standard load for 230gr jacketed bullets and most guns shoot it well.
I've found that plated bullets tend to really start to spread out at about 4.8gr of Bullseye.
5gr of Bullseye is a very standard load for 230gr jacketed bullets and most guns shoot it well.
Yep, it should look something like this (It is a Berrys 230 Gr RN):
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7744230&postcount=3
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
If you do see signs of over-pressure with a .45 ACP?
It will be when you wake up in the ER getting the grip splinters and brass frags dug out of your shooting hand.
There really are no pressure signs at .45 ACP pressure levels until the brass lets go.
rc
LTR shooter
Member
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2008
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- 468
The Sig P220 I owned shot that load remarkably well. I'll probably try it in my Springfield Range Officer too.
gahunter12
Member
W231 is a great powder for 45acp. I like loading 5.2gr of W231 under a 230gr extreme plated RN. That being said I have been playing with WST under lead and plated bullets. I think I may have found a new pet load. My SA Loaded 1911 loves 4.3gr of WST under 230gr plated RN and 4.2gr of WST under 230gr Lead RN. I was amazed how clean WST burns behind lead when I shot my work up loads at my local indoor range. Very very little smoke, and very little residue left on the front of my Barrel Bushing. As much as I like W231, I notice a lot of residue on the front of my 1911 and in the chamber area. I have not tried any Tightgroup yet, but that's my next load to work up. I shoot IDPA with a lot of CDP guys, and everyone of them load Tightgroup for light recoil accurate rounds. Just Something to think about. Have fun, Be Safe!!!
Sounds like you need to bump the load. Your chamber/barrel could be on the high end of spec and not allowing a good seal to bring pressure up enough, (some of) the bullets could be on the small side, or both. I run 4.0gr BE in 230gr LRN @1.235" and 200gr LWSC @ 1.140". Light load, but runs well and is accurate in my guns. FMJ will need an increase in powder.
gamestalker
member
To reiterate regarding the crimp, auto loading cases such as the 45 ACP head space off the mouth. This means that the degree of crimp that is used, isn't actually a crimp at all, but mearly closing up the belled mouth. If the case mouth is reduced by more than .002" the mouth can get pinched which can drive pressures up unpredictably high, or worse, and it could cause FTF's.
Be safe and take some time to read about how to identify a proper crimp for ACP's. This is a very common misconception among reloaders, in that, it's often thought that the crimp on ACP's is indeed a crimp, and serves to increase or maintain neck tension. This is 100% wrong and can get a guy into trouble and destroy a firearm too. 100 % of neck tension on ACP cases is obtained from the resizing die meaning that 0% neck tension is obtained by the crimp.
Cases that head space on the rim such as revolver cases, 38 special, .357 mag. and so on, are a different story all together. Those type cartridges rely on a good roll crimp to prevent bullet jump caused by recoil and high pressures gases blowing back.
GS
Be safe and take some time to read about how to identify a proper crimp for ACP's. This is a very common misconception among reloaders, in that, it's often thought that the crimp on ACP's is indeed a crimp, and serves to increase or maintain neck tension. This is 100% wrong and can get a guy into trouble and destroy a firearm too. 100 % of neck tension on ACP cases is obtained from the resizing die meaning that 0% neck tension is obtained by the crimp.
Cases that head space on the rim such as revolver cases, 38 special, .357 mag. and so on, are a different story all together. Those type cartridges rely on a good roll crimp to prevent bullet jump caused by recoil and high pressures gases blowing back.
GS
otasan56
Member
Better yet, try Winchester SuperLite, Superfield, or SuperTarget. They are great powders.
Maj Dad
Member
Bullseye is Called That For A Reason
My standard load with any 230 gr 45acp is 5.0 gr BE. I have all kinds of powder and load others under 45s, but when I want to be sure it will hit where I point it, and with thump, I use BE. No judgement on anyone's choice, but this is mine.
rc noted:
In the late 70's I was shooting in a CF pistol match with a Jimmy Clark 38spl conversion, and a friend loaned me some rounds loaded with 2.7 gr BE, the standard match load for 148 gr wadcutters. When I fired one of the rounds, there was a loud "BOOM" and my right thumb and fingers went numb
. I reluctantly turned so I could see my hand, and the left grip panel was blown out, but everything else was intact. I was lucky. Double charging BE is not hard to do, and others may not be so lucky. Whenever you load small charges of any powder, check and double-check, and triple-check if you need to, before putting the bullets over them...
My standard load with any 230 gr 45acp is 5.0 gr BE. I have all kinds of powder and load others under 45s, but when I want to be sure it will hit where I point it, and with thump, I use BE. No judgement on anyone's choice, but this is mine.
rc noted:
In the late 70's I was shooting in a CF pistol match with a Jimmy Clark 38spl conversion, and a friend loaned me some rounds loaded with 2.7 gr BE, the standard match load for 148 gr wadcutters. When I fired one of the rounds, there was a loud "BOOM" and my right thumb and fingers went numb
. I reluctantly turned so I could see my hand, and the left grip panel was blown out, but everything else was intact. I was lucky. Double charging BE is not hard to do, and others may not be so lucky. Whenever you load small charges of any powder, check and double-check, and triple-check if you need to, before putting the bullets over them...- Status
