45 Colt in a single shot rifle

[PotatoJudge]

I have a Browning Low Wall in 45 Colt coming this week. I've loaded 45 Colt for revolvers for years but never for a single shot. Does anybody have tips specific for loading for single shot rifles? Do you still put a full roll crimp or just seat the bullet?

 

[45lcshooter]

I would still crimp it. Some manuals have 45lc data for revolvers and data for rifles. But not all manuals have both data's in them.

 

[RealGun]

The purpose of the pistol caliber rifle is to share ammo with a revolver. Just sayin'. However, with my having a cowboy gun, a Henry rifle, and a Ruger Redhawk in 45 LC, I do use a variety of ammo to suit the gun's capabilities. If carrying the Ruger Vaquero (cowboy) and the Henry, I have to carry the least common denominator ammo. It is the Redhawk, a design primarily for .44 Magnum, that can shoot the +P or rifle specialty stuff without concern.

What I don't get is why the +P rounds invariably use flat nose lead bullets.

 

[Kernel]

...tips specific for loading for single shot rifles?

Just seat the bullet. Crimping is not needed or desired. Accuracy will likely improve without it.

Ignore the crimp groove (since it’s not needed) and seat the bullet further out. As far out as the chamber’s throat allows. This gets the bullet closer to the rifling and will also likely improve accuracy.

It also creates more case volume, which you can then fill with more powder - for higher velocity and no increase in peak pressure. (One of life’s few “free lunches.”)

Experiment with pointed bullets. Something not normally practical with revolvers and tube fed guns.

Experiment with heavy for caliber, and light for caliber, bullets. You'll never know for sure what your rifle might like, or be able to stabilize, until you try it.

Get some good finger adjustable peep sights, or a scope. Maybe a globe sight out front. Shoot long range.

 

[Clark]

Someone asked this same question 3 years ago.

http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1232561782

Win and Browning are chambering 243s in low walls.
That would mean that they have the bolt thrust of 60,000 psi for that round or 45 Colt with the same cartridge inside diameter cross section.

If you shoot 45 Colt at 60 kpsi for a few thousand rounds, you may have brain damage and shoulder damage from the recoil.

I have done that in 410 single shot, and it broke the wrist of the Walnut stock when the butt was touching concrete. The wrist will do ok if the butt is smashing up your compliant shoulder.

 

[highlander 5]

I've have or had several single shot rifles,right now I have 2 Browning High Walls and a Shiloh Sharps and I apply just enough crimp to remove the bell from case flaring. If you were shooting just the Low Wall I would recommend what I do for my rifles but if you're planning to fire from both pistol and rifle a firm crimp is needed.

 

[PotatoJudge]

Thanks for the tips Kernel and highlander. I plan to load different rounds for the rifle so I'll be going the no-crimp seated-out route. I have about 5 lbs of lil gun which I'd like to use.

Clark, I saw that thread and some other similar discussions and I'm not sure I completely get it. I understand there's a limit (not officially published) to the pressure the Browning low walls can take, and that a cartridge running at X psi but that has larger case head exerts more overall force than a smaller cartridge of the same pressure. What I don't' get is how if the gun has the same bolt thrust as a 243, and if shooting loads no hotter than what I put through a pistol, I'll have problems with the recoil. I understand the crescent butt plate won't help things.

I'd imagine shooting 243, 30-06, or any number of mid-range rounds with the stock against concrete would break a stock in short order.

 

[flipajig]

I don't shoot a low wall but I do shoot a contender in 44 mag along with a SBH.
I seat and crimp the bulets the same I don't load the tender longer I was thinking the same thing to try to increase the accuracy after asking the same question on another forum page
(Specialty Pistol Fourm). When it comes to loading straight walled pistol rounds forget what you know about rifle loading.

 

[Clark]

Measure:
The inside diameter of a 243 Win case is roughly the same as the inside diameter of a 45 Colt case.
But not the same, so I cross sectioned them for this post.
I just measured:
The 243 is .395" inside diameter.
The 45 Colt is .435" inside diameter.

Calculate:
The .243 Win SAAMI max average pressure is 60 kpsi. The proof loads are 1.3 to 1.4 times that = 78 kpsi to 84 kpsi.
The bolt thrust is then potentially
Force = pressure times area
F = 84 kpsi [ pi r squared]
F = 84 kpsi [ 3.14 ][.395"/2]^2 =10,294 lb
The 45 Colt in a Browning low wall proof pressure is then at least
P = F/A = [10,294 lb]/ [3.14][.435"/2]^2 = 69,265 psi proof pressure.
Max average pressure [at least for 45 Colt in Browning low wall] = proof/1.4 = 49, 475 psi max average pressure

What does it all mean?
The rifle can handle a lot of pressure.
I would suggest 24 gr H110, 250 gr XTP, 1.6" OAL, roll crimp into the cannelure, 22 kpsi, ~ 1500 fps from a 16.25" barrel.
The recoil will be hard.
Get a Limbsaver recoil pad.

 

[PotatoJudge]

Great info Clark. Thanks for taking the time to section those cases. I appreciate the insight to what the action can handle. There's a lot of discussion on the net about low wall strength which is muddied by the various manufacturers, and I was beginning to wonder if the hottest 45 Colt loads may be too much for the action. Sounds like my shoulder will give before the action.
I have about 5lb of lil gun and bullets from 255-300 grains but have H110 and a handful of other powders that should work well.

 

[Clark]

I think H110 smells better, but sometimes LIL'GUN just works better, as I found out 3 weeks ago with 25-20.

 

[PO2Hammer]

I have a Browning Low Wall in 45 Colt coming this week.

Nice!
I have a H&R classic in .45 Colt. Lot's of fun, terrific accuracy.
If you use slower powders you still have to crimp to get good ignition.

 

[RealGun]

Clark wrote:
I think H110 smells better, but sometimes LIL'GUN just works better, as I found out 3 weeks ago with 25-20.

I've learned to think of H110 as requiring a magnum primer. What do you think?

 

[hang fire]

I have done that in 410 single shot, and it broke the wrist of the Walnut stock when the butt was touching concrete.

Were you shooting .45 Colt (.452) in the .410 bore?

 

[918v]

My tip:

Use a big enough bullet if you'r going to shoot lead.

 

[Hondo 60]

Definitely use a nice firm roll crimp.
Not so much as to buckle the case though.

 

[Clark]

hang fire
Originally Posted by Clark
I have done that in 410 single shot, and it broke the wrist of the Walnut stock when the butt was touching concrete.

Were you shooting .45 Colt (.452) in the .410 bore?

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.


That test was way back in 2001:

the Western Fields [Stevens OEM] 410 I got for $50 Went through a lot before the choke split.

1) 45 Colt brass with CCI200 Large Rifle Primer:
a)
37 gr H110 .452" FMJ 230 Montana Gold, 1.754"
39 gr H110, .452" MT Au 230 gr FMJ 1.71"
b)
30 gr H110 .458" hard cast 300 gr #457191, 1.775", published at 53,700 cup
32 gr H110 .458" hard cast 300 gr #457191, 1.68"
32 gr H110 .458" hard cast 300 gr #457191, 1.63" case head expands .002"
40 gr H110 .458" hard cast 300 gr #457191, 1.837" primer leaked, case head expands .004"
40 gr H110 .458" hard cast 300 gr #457191, 1.86" primer top hat and cratered but did not leak, case head expands .002"
c)
30 gr H110 .458" 405 gr hard cast 2.165"
30 gr H110 .458" 405 gr hard cast 1.85"
40 gr H110 .458" hard cast 405 gr 2.75"
40 gr H110 .458" 405 gr hard cast 2.1" case head expands .004", case body cracking, butt of gun on concrete, recoil breaks wooden stock wrist

 

[kludge]

Some powders need a good crimp.

 

[PotatoJudge]

The rifle came in and it's in better shape than described. It's smaller and lighter than I expected but has a solid feel. I've never shot with sights like these so I guess I'll see how I do with what's on it before I look at replacements.




I've got various loads ready to go including my light and heavy pistol loads as well as 250-300 grain rifle specific loads. I figure I'll decide how much recoil I want to live with then work on finding an accurate load in that range.

 

[JM Browning]

I too am interested in a single shot 45lc rifle. I was reading that the Browning would be the choice over the Ruger(when I was looking at .270). Two questions: One is, why rifle primer over Lg pistol. And what is the advantage of high wall over short wall and visa-versa? I realize this particular forum is old, but.....

 

[buck460XVR]

Some powders need a good crimp.

yep....H110/W296 and Lil Gun are two of em. Another powder to consider is IMR4227. It works exceptionally well for me in handgun caliber carbines.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I would suggest 24 gr H110, 250 gr XTP, 1.6" OAL, roll crimp into the cannelure, 22 kpsi, ~ 1500 fps from a 16.25" barrel.
The recoil will be hard.

I've upped that to 26 grains and fired the load through a Ruger Blackhawk. It wasn't fun. I shot a cylinder of them and then picked black flakes of rubber from the Pachmyer grips out of the heel of my hand.
That is WAY above SAMMI specs BTW so don't shoot it through anything but Ruger, Freedom Arms, T/C and the like.

PotatoJudge that is sweet and should be loads of fun to play with. Congrats on a super cool rifle.