.50 Armisport Kentucky rifle

[abaddon]

I found a .50 Armisport Kentucky rifle in a pawnshop and am considering buying it. I found the owner's manual here.

I'm new to blackpowder and would appreciate your help on this.

The thing I can't figure out is that it says the twist rate is 920mm. How do Europeans measure twist rate? 920mm is equal to about 36" - does this mean it is comparable to 1:36 twist?

The owner's manual says that you're limited to patch and ball with a 35-55 grains of FFG. But with a 1:36 twist that would normally be better with heavier grain bullets correct?

Anyone know anything that may clear this up? I want to use it for deer hunting (blacktail) and possibly Elk, but if I'm limited to patch and ball then wouldn't that rule out elk?

 

[mykeal]

920mm is equal to about 36" - does this mean it is comparable to 1:36 twist?

Yes

The owner's manual says that you're limited to patch and ball with a 35-55 grains of FFG. But with a 1:36 twist that would normally be better with heavier grain bullets correct?

1 in 36 will work well with .490 prb and loads in that range. Accuracy will fall off a bit with heavier loads, but should still be acceptable for 60 yards and closer up to 70 gr. 1 in 36 will be better served by conical rounds and 70-80 gr of powder, and should be good out to 100 yards, perhaps beyond. The latter load would be best for elk; you'd need to be closer and sure of your shot with the lighter loads and prb.

 

[mykeal]

deleted duplicate post.

 

[arcticap]

Someone else with a similar rifle and twist rate just could not get patched round balls to group as well as conicals did or to impact to the same point of aim that his sights were fixed at.
It was simply a rifle that shot conical bullets better than balls.
However if you give it a try your results might vary.

 

[abaddon]

Thanks for the replies. Obviously it would take some experimentation on my part to find out what loading will be most accurate. My main worry would be that if the owner's manual says to use ball ammo and 45-55 grains then the pressures would be too high for anything heavier than ball. Especially if you're approaching 80 grains of powder.

Does anyone have any specific knowledge of these guns? Are they just being overly conservative in the owner's manual?

 

[arcticap]

Yes they are being conservative like most BP gun manufacturers these days.
I think that it's because they know that some folks will inadvertantly put double powder loads into their barrels. If the max. charge were listed as 100 grains, than that would make 200 grains and a dangerous situation that they should have forseen when they wrote the max. loads into their manual.
Maybe they can avoid some legal liability this way, but using modern steel those listed loads can be safely upped to 100 grains equivalent of ffg, 10% less of fffg, or 15% less of 777 by volume.
That's as totally "unofficial" as the existence of.......................................
a talking horse of course, of course by the name of Mr. Ed!

 

[abaddon]

You mean Mr. Ed's not real?

 

[arcticap]

Of course as a horse, Mr Ed is not really liable for saying so either of course!

 

[abaddon]

Is Armisport different from Armsport?

After finding information on both spellings I am starting to wonder which one I was looking at in the pawn shop.

 

[arcticap]

Armisport is the Italian Chiappa Firearms which makes reproduction guns including many muzzle loaders.

http://www.armisport.com/


Armsport is listed in Blue Book as previously an importer and distributor of Sarsilmaz Turkish shotguns until 2000 and which was located in Miami.
They also imported a line of accessories and a revolver.

 

[abaddon]

It is an Armsport. I just bought the gun for $150. I couldn't see this earlier because the stock wass on it, but under the barrel it says, "Ranson Italia spa - made in Italy."

It has the following proof marks on the barrel:
AC (with a box around the lettering)
PN

I checked the twist rate by pushing a patch down the barrel and seeing how much it spins. I think it's approximately 1:58. Does this limit me to only patch and ball ammo? Seems like that's kind of mid-range between 1:48 and 1:66.

I'll take it out and give it a shot on Friday.

 

[mykeal]

Probably a 1:60. Favors prb's, but you can shoot conicals with less accuracy.

AC is a date code that says it was built in 1977.

PN is the Italian proof house identification, on all Italian made bp guns.

 

[arcticap]

That's considered to be slow twist, but you can still try conicals.
The Buffalo Ball-ets sometimes shoot well from slow twist barrels with the help of a wool over powder wad, maybe out to ~70 yards. Other conicals may shoot well too.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=3625

The .50 Ball-ets are made in several versions including hollow points, and Cabela's calls the similar Ball-ets in the pistol calibers "Slick Silver Pistol Bullets".

They both have the same round nose design:



http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...de=IJ&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat200005

 

[abaddon]

Thanks for the replies. I think I'll try those Ball-ets to see how accurate they are. But now I'm leaning towards using patched round ball for hunting. After talking to a few guys at Sportsman's Warehouse I think it's do-able even for elk. I'll just have to have good shot placement and limit myself to about 60 yards. And of course I'll spend some time shooting and may adjust that range depending on how accurate the gun (and I) turn out to be.

I got set up with all the equipment I'll need. This Friday I'm taking the day off and I'll sight it in. I'll let everyone know what I find out.