51 or 61 ? Which one do you favor and why?

[Beartracker]

Some people seem to like the looks of the 61 better than the 51 and some like the 51 better. To tell the truth the 51 is becoming the one I like the look's of the best. If any of you have shot both or even held both I would like to hear your openions.

 

[Dienekes]

Have a rough original 1851 (bought for $35 in 1963) and had a 2nd gen. Navy for a while in the 70s which I should have kept. Picked up a 1861 Uberti a couple of years back and had it out today.

They both have absolutely classic lines and handle and shoot identically. The 61 is probably the more elegant of the two. You might say that it is the antithesis of square, matte black plastic guns.

I am very pleased with it.

 

[Beartracker]

Dienekes , Thank you for your reply and the info. You seem to agree with most people that they both are great pieces and a joy to shoot.
I guess for me the 51 has more history and romance to it as far as the old west goes. I sure do love my Remingtons but it looks like my next one will be the 51. Thanks again, Mike

 

[mec]

The 61s are definately more streamline and modern looking- but is that what we really WANT from one of these relics? I really can't tell much difference in handling and balance between the two. For the most part, the 61s have taller blade sights and don't shoot so far over the target as most bead sighted 51s but this seems to be changing with the replicas. The recent uberti 51s have taller coned beads than in previous years.

I like them both but a significant factor to me is that by the start of the civil war, 51 Navies had been in circulation for 11 years and there were 98,000 of them in circulation all over the world. They had done the nasty every where from East Africa and Sebastapole to South Texas and Missouri/Kansas. There were exactly zero 61s on the ground at that time and the total production amounted to only 38,000 by 1863. Still, I wouldn't trade my accurate 61 for anything else that didnt shoot as well

 

[Beartracker]

Thanks Mec,From all the history I have read on these revolvers some of the info came from your book.Over the years I have done a lot of research on all the C&B Pistols and revolvers and own several but the 51 is the one I really want to try and carry around the house for timber rattlers and copperheads when working in the yard or mowing. My Remington is on my side when I'm in the higher mountains and playing with Bear and hogs,Lol.
PS Is that mountain man in the shorts you? Looks like he has the makens of Rabbit stew.

 

[mec]

camp meat. did that on a trip to Snyder, Texas this spring. Makes it nice that the 61 does hit right to the sights with ball.

 

[Across The Pond]

I far prefer the '51..... but the '61 is growing on me. There's something about the '51's hex barrel and the square underlug, that looks more..... purposeful. I guess that's why I also like the looks of the '49 pocket.

As an aside, I have read an interesting article on the web that suggests the idea that Colt used a Collas machine to 'scale-up' a pocket to make the navy. The author's name is Arthur Tobias and I found it a very interesting read..

ATP

 

[skinwalker]

51 or 61?

I`ve owned and shot both , and believe them both to be excellent pieces . but , there`s just something about the 51 that I like ! dont ask me what , because I cant really put my finger on it ! still , I would reccomend either one to a first timer .

 

[Beartracker]

Well, You guy's convinced me so today I ordered the 51 .36, a wedge puller, an extra cylinder, a Lee melting pot with the spout, a round ball double cavity mould .454 and double .380. I'll order the conicals later.
The guy I was getting my Goex powder from is still not open and he may have closed for good. Found a place 55 miles from me that sells Pyrodex "P" so I bought two containers of that and some new bore brushes for the .44 Remington and the .36 Colt.They were out of the Remington #10 caps but I know whare I can get them.Also out of the 777 and I wanted to try some of that.
Also bought a repair kit for the 51. , Cabelas sells them but there not in there catalog. The kit includes all the springs, hand and paw and a trigger and hammer, all for $18.00. Most places charge you more than that just for a hammer!

 

[mec]

That's gonna be a neat package. sounds like you're well set up.

 

[Beartracker]

Mec, Gonna have to try some of your recommended loads for this .36 with the Pyrodex "P". This will be the first time I have ever used the sub powder and I have been at this a long time. Always loved my Holy Black!.

 

[mec]

I predict good results with 20-22 gr/vol. I use 22 because the spouts with the navy flasks are that size. If it's a uberti, the .375 balls may seat too easily. In that case, seat them fairly hard and they will swage out to meet the chamber walls. This will prevent recoil-creap and make for fine accuracy.

Your .380 Lee balls should work very well.

Extra care in de-greasing, chambers. Pyrodex is just a little harder to ignite . It helps to dribble a bit of powder into the chambers and then pop caps over them to make sure all the oil and such is gone.

 

[Beartracker]

Thanks for the advice Mec. I'll make sure chambers are dry and clean as well as the nipples. I'm kind of a nut on that stuff anyway. The new remington caps were made hotter too just because of that problem with the subs.
Never had a problem with the couple of hundred new #10 Remingtons that I have tried so far.
Almost every one I talked to about the 51 told me not to use the recomended .375 and to use the .380 so that's the mold I ordered.
In your book you mentioned that when you tried the .451 and .454 ball in the Remington that you could not see any difference in accuracy between the two and that it may have something to do with the ball just touching the lans and that seemed to be enough. It seems strange to me but that's what I found a while back also. Just can't seem to convince myself that I don't need to use .454 in my Remingtons.
Have you found any difference in the .375 -.380 ball in the .36 Navy?

 

[mec]

I'm still skeptical about the smaller ball even though I saw what it did. Small number of observations (from the bench anyway) and maybe if I shot a bunch of groups, it would be different. Nevertheless, I've had pretty good luck with the small balls in those revolvers that don't let it walk forward under recoil.

I've used .375 ball, .380 Warren balls and Lee Cast 380s. the .375s occasionally roll right into the uberti chambers but get a grip as I compress them. Accuracy has been very fine with those loads. I've found the same thing with 44 bullets. Some would walk forward with relatively light powder charges that didnt compress very much but If I increased the charge and seated them rather firmly, they no longer walked forward- swaged into the chamber wall.

I prefer shooting 380s in the Uberti. Some of the Warrens are out of round and looser than others but compressing them on top a 22gr/vol charge of pyrodex P fixes that and they will shoot match grade groups.

This is the first group I shot with my 61 navy, I believe. It was with .375 Hornady balls. I believe the fliers were a result of my off-hand hold and imperfect shooting. Could have been mini-fliers from marginal ball fit but the first explaination is very likely.

 

[Beartracker]

One handed at 50'! Great shooting no matter how you look at it.
When I chamfered the mouth of my Remington cylinders it really stopped the shaving of lead and I believe therefor helped with the ball staying fast without creep even with heavy loads and the .451. It also may help with the contact of the ball to the lans even though it would be minute.

 

[mec]

Probably a full measure of luck involved thought that revolver does that fairly regularly.

 

[Old Fuff]

I have both original and reproduction '51 Navy's and a '61 reproduction that once belonged to Col. Rex Applegate, of fighting knife fame. I tend to prefer the '51 for its classic cap & ball look, but it is much easier to load bullets into the '61. I find both to be better balanced then the larger/longer '60 Army, and this may explain the Navy revolvers continued popularity up to 1872 and beyond. Go either way and you won't go wrong...

 

[mec]

When I first started shooting Armies, I noticed that the light and more hollow barrel didn't "hang" quite as nice as the heavier navies. Mine has a good light trigger though and it kind of makes up for that.

 

[Beartracker]

Thanks for all the great info guy's. It sure helps when you can chat with someone who knows what there talking about I have owned and shot C$B for a long time but I know very little about the quirks and actions of the 51. Thanks again, Mike

 

[Old Fuff]

The lockwork in the Colt revolvers is very similar to that used in a Remington. That's because so far as lockwork went, Remington's ace designers, Fordyce Beals and William Elliot had adapted (dare I say copied?) Colt's earlier pattern. If you have worked on the Remington '58 you'll have no trouble picking up on the Colt.

 

[Beartracker]

Thanks Old Fluff. I didn't think there would be much of a problem in the tunning process but it never hurts to ask guy's like you, Mec and the others on here who have first hand knowledge. Thanks again.

 

[20cows]

51 or 61?

Both! I have two of each.

 

[mec]

"Both! I have two of each."
That's the best answer yet.

 

[Old Fuff]

Concerning the 61 Navy...

I notice that some of the repro makers are putting out what they call a 1861 Navy, but is really an 1860 Army (8 inch barrel) bored in .36 rather then .44 - this may not bother some, but it does me. The true 61 Navy had an 1851 Navy backstrap and trigger guard, with a 7 1/2" barrel.

Since this thread has got me thinking (always a bad thing) I am now considering getting an 1851 model, and buying a correct 1861 barrel assembly. By changing the barrel (which is the only difference between the two models, both original and correct reproduction) I would have both configurations without having to go to the expense of buying two revolvers. This would make an "interesting" cased set methinks...

Tis time to get out the Dixie and Numrich catalogs...

 

[Manyirons]

"Both! I have two of each."
That's the best answer yet.

And he beat me to it as per your recommendation, have two 61's on order to compliment the brace of 51's!