Can you guys tell me more about the 6mm Remington cartridge? I happened into a used (lightly) 6mm Remington custom. Designed to stabilise the 75 and less grain bullets. Hart barrel, rem 700 short action. trued etc! Anyway, i was wanting to know more about the cartridge. I read about it being the .244 at first. Also wondering about ballistics and such. The sample targets have loads written on them that the builder worked up. And all groups are dime sized at 100 yards.
6mm remington?
- Thread starter Slimjim
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What twist rate does it have?
The earliest .244s were a slower twist rate. That, and the fact that they were in an ugly rifle, is why the .243 outsold them so much.
The 6mm has a little more potential than the .243, since it's based on the 7x57mm case instead of the .308.
John
The earliest .244s were a slower twist rate. That, and the fact that they were in an ugly rifle, is why the .243 outsold them so much.
The 6mm has a little more potential than the .243, since it's based on the 7x57mm case instead of the .308.
John
According to The Reload Bench, you may indeed have to use lighter bullets. Apparently the Rem 722 was a 1-12"...
If you're willing to either reload or buy custom ammo, you might do okay with the 85-grain X-bullet. Especially if you reload, it might be worth a shot, especially with such a nice rifle. ('N if you do reload, you might want to ask the guys in the loading forum, too.)
John
If you're willing to either reload or buy custom ammo, you might do okay with the 85-grain X-bullet. Especially if you reload, it might be worth a shot, especially with such a nice rifle. ('N if you do reload, you might want to ask the guys in the loading forum, too.)
John
MachIVshooter
Member
Slimjim said:
If the barrel is marked "6mm Rem." then it should have a 1:9" twist. That was the reason the .244 was renamed; original .244 twist was 1:12 and did not fare well with heavier bullets, which is why the .243 won out. If yours has a slower twist, then it was built to be a varmint gun only.
The 6mm is capable of pushing bullets 100-150 FPS faster than .243 Win; a negligeable difference but an advantage nonetheless. On average, the 6mm generates about 2,000-2,100 ft/lbs at the muzzle. The long neck does make it more handloader-friendly.
I have a Ruger M77 in 6mm and with 90 gr. FMJ's at 3310 FPS, it is my premier coyote gun.
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
Perhaps. But given the lack of care in the building of those two rifles, who can tell for sure?
Your stock on my rifle, etc., etc., etc.
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
Slim,
My post was in reply to JShirley's post. He had two 6mm Remingtons built on 1891 Mauser actions by a gunsmith. One was a gift for me. Apparently the gunsmith was suffering from heart problems and was not getting enough blood pumped to his brain. Early stages of dementia as a result. Our rifles reflect his medical condition. John has a very short length of pull on his stocks. His stock was placed on my rifle among a plethora of screwups on them.
My post was in reply to JShirley's post. He had two 6mm Remingtons built on 1891 Mauser actions by a gunsmith. One was a gift for me. Apparently the gunsmith was suffering from heart problems and was not getting enough blood pumped to his brain. Early stages of dementia as a result. Our rifles reflect his medical condition. John has a very short length of pull on his stocks. His stock was placed on my rifle among a plethora of screwups on them.
sumpnz
Member
The 6mm Rem was actually a necked down .257 Roberts (and put in rifles designed for much higher pressures than the .257). The .257 may have been based on the 7x57 but I don't know for sure.JShirley said:
Jim Watson
Member
sumpnz,
The .257 Roberts was based on the .25 Roberts which was indeed made from 7x57 Mauser. The .244/6mm Rem is so close to the rather scarce 6mm Mauser as to make no difference in performance. Might actually be interchangeable unless three or four generations of shoulder angle fads interfere.
It bugs me that it is so commonly said that the .257 Roberts is loaded to lower pressures than other cartridges because the guns chambered for it were not as strong. Considering that the Remington Model 30, the original home of the .257, was based on the 1917 Enfield, and the Winchester Model 54 was the direct ancestor of the Model 70; and that both were also chambered for the .270 which is one of the highest pressure cartriges going, there has to be another reason.
The usual other reason given is that Remington and Winchester had to hold the .257 down was because it was chambered in so many weak actions while a wildcat. I doubt that too. Most of the wildcats were .25 Roberts or .25 Griffin & Howe/Roberts, which are not interchangeable with the production round. And I doubt G&H were much in the habit of using weak actions to build on anyhow.
I think the real reason the .257 got standardized underpowered is because the only reliable way known in those days to assure accuracy was to load light, and the Roberts was promoted as a target and varmint round.
The .257 Roberts was based on the .25 Roberts which was indeed made from 7x57 Mauser. The .244/6mm Rem is so close to the rather scarce 6mm Mauser as to make no difference in performance. Might actually be interchangeable unless three or four generations of shoulder angle fads interfere.
It bugs me that it is so commonly said that the .257 Roberts is loaded to lower pressures than other cartridges because the guns chambered for it were not as strong. Considering that the Remington Model 30, the original home of the .257, was based on the 1917 Enfield, and the Winchester Model 54 was the direct ancestor of the Model 70; and that both were also chambered for the .270 which is one of the highest pressure cartriges going, there has to be another reason.
The usual other reason given is that Remington and Winchester had to hold the .257 down was because it was chambered in so many weak actions while a wildcat. I doubt that too. Most of the wildcats were .25 Roberts or .25 Griffin & Howe/Roberts, which are not interchangeable with the production round. And I doubt G&H were much in the habit of using weak actions to build on anyhow.
I think the real reason the .257 got standardized underpowered is because the only reliable way known in those days to assure accuracy was to load light, and the Roberts was promoted as a target and varmint round.
redneck2
Member
According to "Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions"
The .257 Roberts is indeed based on the 7x57. However, the .244/6mm Rem is neither. It is based on the .270, which is 30-06. The 6mm is necked down and shortened..this on page 727
But, according to "Cartridges of the World", (pp. 98) the cartridge is based on the .257 Roberts
while this seems contradictory, the specs on all the cases are so close that they could probably be interchanged
The .257 Roberts is indeed based on the 7x57. However, the .244/6mm Rem is neither. It is based on the .270, which is 30-06. The 6mm is necked down and shortened..this on page 727
But, according to "Cartridges of the World", (pp. 98) the cartridge is based on the .257 Roberts
while this seems contradictory, the specs on all the cases are so close that they could probably be interchanged
Jim I shoot a Ruger M77, circa 1968, in 6mm Remington. I load Speer 105 grain Spitzers and 75 grain HP's. I like both rounds for different reasons. The 75 grain HP's can indeed be shot into dime sized groups, and the 3500 fps muzzle velocity and near linear trajectory out to about 230 yards (when zero'd at 200) helps me a lot when after varmints.
While I like the 6mm in 75 grain HP, I originally bought it as a deer rifle/varmint rifle in that order. If you are only after varmints there might be better varmint rounds out there. Though I never tried 58, or 65 grain bullets, I did try the 70 grain SP and it shot very well in my M77 also. Maybe some have loaded the 58 grain and/or the 65 grain and can offer their results.
If I were to be limited to Speer, or Sierra 75 grain HP's only in my M77, I'd keep it. The 75 grain HP is probably my most loaded 6mm bullet. I must say that probably my longest shot at a varmint was about 300 yards and I missed.
In 1968 the 6mm Remington was promoted by writers as better than the Winchester .243 for the "1 rifle" owner. I've enjoyed mine.
Hook686
While I like the 6mm in 75 grain HP, I originally bought it as a deer rifle/varmint rifle in that order. If you are only after varmints there might be better varmint rounds out there. Though I never tried 58, or 65 grain bullets, I did try the 70 grain SP and it shot very well in my M77 also. Maybe some have loaded the 58 grain and/or the 65 grain and can offer their results.
If I were to be limited to Speer, or Sierra 75 grain HP's only in my M77, I'd keep it. The 75 grain HP is probably my most loaded 6mm bullet. I must say that probably my longest shot at a varmint was about 300 yards and I missed.
In 1968 the 6mm Remington was promoted by writers as better than the Winchester .243 for the "1 rifle" owner. I've enjoyed mine.
Hook686
MachIVshooter
Member
That particular source is dead-wrong. The 6mm was built by increasing the shoulder angle the .257 Roberts to 26 degrees and necking down to accept .244" bullets. The .30-06 family of cartridges have less body taper. Besides, wildcats are typically developed using the easiest method. Why shorten and further taper '06 brass when one could just run a .257 Roberts through the die once and be done?redneck2 said:
Sunray
Member
"...I read about it being the .244 at first...." It was called the .244 Remington back in the mid-50's when it and the .243 Win were introduced. Winchester won the marketing battle with the .243. The 6mm Rem. is about 100 fps or so faster than the .243 Win with the same bullet weights. It's case is longer too.
The only real downside to the 6mm Rem. is that if you get off hunting and you left your ammo on the kitchen table, you may not be able to find it in smaller places. I'd be inclined to use the loads you were given. You have a custom rifle and there's no sense in trying to reinvent the wheel when you have proven loads. Hopefully, the bullets, primers and powders used are still available. Berger makes a 71 grain match bullet you can buy from Midway for $23.49 per 100. Sierra makes a 70 grain match bullet too.
Ballistics for Remington factory ammo can be had here. http://www.remington.com/ammo/ballistics/centerfire/results.asp?cal=8
The only real downside to the 6mm Rem. is that if you get off hunting and you left your ammo on the kitchen table, you may not be able to find it in smaller places. I'd be inclined to use the loads you were given. You have a custom rifle and there's no sense in trying to reinvent the wheel when you have proven loads. Hopefully, the bullets, primers and powders used are still available. Berger makes a 71 grain match bullet you can buy from Midway for $23.49 per 100. Sierra makes a 70 grain match bullet too.
Ballistics for Remington factory ammo can be had here. http://www.remington.com/ammo/ballistics/centerfire/results.asp?cal=8
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