7.62x54R "Back to the Future" load

[Cosmoline]

I'm loading up a batch of 7.62x54R for my M-39 Sako using 215 grain Woodleigh bullets. The bullets are .312", which is very slightly larger than the .311" Russian bullets the M-39 usually shoots. My test batch is loaded with 42 grains of IMR 4064. IMR 4064 is one of my favorite military powders and I've had very good results with it using large slugs in the 8x57JS and 7.65 Argentine.

I'll be testing the batch tomorrow and will post results. My theory on the load is to maximize the M-39 as a big game rifle. The Woodleigh 215 grainers already have an excellent worldwide reputation for making .303's into big game rifles. The sectional density of .316 and a prime impact veolcity of 1800-2200 fps. They should be running about 2,300 fps from my M-39, generating 2,500 ft. lbs. at the muzzle. The awesome SD comes from the fact that they're basically crossbow bolts. I have some concerns that the M-39's barrel will keep them stable. If it doesn't work well, I'll try them with an M-91 at some point. The load is a hot version of the very first 7.62x54R loads.

 

[Cosmoline]

OK, first batch fired. Accuracy was very good, with a trajectory actually a little higher at fifty yards than Wolf 200 grain SP's. I had a nice touching group of four at fifty yards. However, I'm seeing primer flow and two burst primers so I'm going to back down to 40 grains of 4064 and sink the bullets deeper. The ogive of the sharp RN on the Woodleigh is pretty high and dramatic. It seems to be getting cramed up a bit even with OAL held to 2.85" I'm going to try to get the OAL down to 2.7" The extra .001" is probably creating a bit more pressure spike than it should. Though I saw no other signs of prersure.

I have a feeling this load would work very, very well in an old Russian 1891. They usually have bigger bore sizes and I'm willng to bet money that their chamber dimensions are much more forgiving of long, RN bullets with a high ogive.

 

[Third_Rail]

Have you actually used a micrometer to check the bullets? Perhaps they're larger than you think.

 

[Cosmoline]

Good point, but I did in fact check them. Actually, they have a slight taper. Only the back portion measures out to .312", and it is EXACT. The folks in Murrabit apparently know what they are doing. Even if I don't

 

[Sam Adams]

Cosmoline,

A bit off topic, but what the heck: Why are you quoting Commie admirals (let alone one that cost the American taxpayer so much money in the '80's to build up our Navy) in your tag line when you could be quoting from red-blooded American heroes? General George S. Patton, Jr. often said "The perfect is the enemy of the good." Oh, and Patton said it before the Commie bastich was even born.

 

[Cosmoline]

I believe the quote goes back to Voltaire's "Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien," which is almost certainly where the Francophone Patton got it. The Admiral's version is also cited as an "old Russian proverb," and it does seem to sum up their approach to problem solving much more than the American high-tech approach.

Anyway, dude. War's over! I like the Russians and I love their firearms. I find they work better and are a lot less expensive than their American counterparts. The Russians kept things simple in a way we seem to find impossible. Compare the AK and AR for a perfect example. Or compare our grounded Space Shuttle with the simple workhorse rockets the Russians are still sending up.

 

[Cosmoline]

Here is a photo of the early 7.62x54R loadings I'm trying to replicate using modern Woodleigh RN's:

 

[Third_Rail]

If you get any farther on this, I'd love to see the loaded rounds that finally work.

 

[Cosmoline]

I'll post them. The project is just on a brief hiatus waiting for my new 1970 M-39 to arrive.

 

[KriegHund]

Sam Adams, i suppose qouting Stalin despite the truthfulness of the words was un-patriotic as well?

Gah, im going to start a war over this. Ide rather not. Ignore my communist ways.

COSMOLINE-

Very good idea. It seems the rounded noses have only a slight effect on accuracy? I thought they strated using conical bullets becuase of improved accuracy? Anywho, whats primer flow?

 

[armoredman]

Nifty - I have some tester loads made for my Mosins using light .310 125gr bullets I haven't had time to try out yet, but this looks interesting. Thanks for sharing, and pictures would be very nice, as well.

 

[RON in PA]

One reason for using pointed bullets is that they tumble when penetrating the target causing more wounding. Don't think it has anything to do with accuracy. Also they retain velocity better.

 

[Cosmoline]

The Russians, along with all the other Great Powers in the late 19th century were intially using the heavy, high SD, RN bullets at low velocity. The German Spitzer bullet of 1905 changed all that, as it increased velocity and apparently improved the cartridge's performance against humans. There were reports from the Russo-Japanese war that the early RN rounds would punch holes through several soldiers and not stop them. I don't know how accurate these reports were, but the brass bought it. There does seem to be an explosive effect on human flesh at 2,200 fps and greater.

At the same time, hunters around the world had GREAT results with low velocity high SD military ball rounds. They used the early military rounds to take every animal on the planet and the early accounts I've read laud the performance of these bullets. But somewhere along the line people started going to smaller higher velocity rounds for hunting and forgot about the magic bullets of the 1890's. That's what I'm hoping to rediscover.

 

[KriegHund]

Very iinteresting thanks for the info!

 

[armoredman]

Show hunting pics, too? Very interested in the results - thanks!

 

[Cosmoline]

OK, I had to do some rifle swapping but I have some new results for this load

The best one so far is the Woodleigh in Lapua or Norma brass backed with 43 Grains of N.540. In the Tikka 91/30 at fifty the group was about one inch, hitting about one inch below POA. In the M-44 it was even better, hitting in an overlapping group at fifty yards just on POA.

I suspect this will prove an excellent load in 91/30's and M-44's with generous bores.

 

[goon]

You couldn't make it work with the M-39?
I have some Winchester brass for the MN that I have been playing around with. I am thinking that some "light" loads using 123 grain bullets for the 7.62x39 is going to be my next project. The way I see it, shooting is supposed to be fun. No sense getting yourself beat all to hamburger with full power loads if you can come up with a practice load that doesn't leave you bruised and shaking at the end of the day.
Is the OAL what stopped you with the M-39?
I could settle for 180 grain out of the '54R when I start worrying about seriousl hunting loads (there are already choices out there in that weight) but it would have been nice for the 215 grain to work as well.

 

[Cosmoline]

Well your results may vary. It was OK but oddly high in my Cont. War Sako. The 1970 M-39's bore was quite tight and it didn't like the .312" bullets at all. It definately liked thinner bullets. My experience is the Finnish mosins can be picky about their preferences. Some M-39's will like one kind of ammo, another M-39 will like a completely different kind. THe Tikka 91/30 seems to be engineered a little looser. It's not quite as tight a grouper as the M-39's I've had but it shoots all kinds of ammo to the same general POA ranging from 1 1/2" groups to 2 1/2" groups.

But like I said I think this load would be *ideal* for Russian and soviet mosins, esp. Russian M-91's with their longer throats and wider bores. The M-44 absolutely loves this load, and I just got through loading a batch in fresh brass with some primer seal that will be my new M-44 bear loads for the trail. Those Woodleighs are designed for expansion and penetration at moderate .303 level velocities. Perfect for taking on big game with a C&R rifle. Their ultra high SD makes up for the lower velocity of the non-magnum round.

 

[Third_Rail]

Now that I'm quite into reloading, I wish to try this as well. Where did you get your reloading data for the Woodleigh bullets?

 

[Cosmoline]

I use the loadbook manual on the cartridge and the Viht. manual.

I posted this in a new thread, but just FYI the best load for this cartridge turned out to be 50 grains of IMR 4350, hand pressed with a COL of 2.85 to keep the ogive out of the rifling. It seems to do very well in both Russian Mosins and D-bore Finns.

 

[Third_Rail]

And it looks so good with an MN.

 

[Glamdring]

Thanks Cosmoline

 

[Cosmoline]

Sure thing. Remember to seal those primers though. On Saturday I took out one of my first generation batches that had been sitting around in a backpack for the past year or two and shot it out of my Tikka M91. One of them had wet powder and squibbed out on me, leaving a big slug and wad of powder in the bore! I checked and sure enough there was no George & Roy on them. Must have gotten some water in there from some trip.

Also I've backed off a bit from 50 grains as I noted in the other thread to keep the Woodleigh in its target impact veolcity.