870 Flextab Conversion

[splithoof]

Hi Folks;
I have seen this covered in a few older sections, but I don't think I have seen a complete parts list: I have a pre-Flextab 870, and wish to add a newer Police trigger plate assembly (metal, not plastic) which includes the Flextab carrier; as I understand, I need a new breech bolt assembly, and slide assembly? And if so, what else exactly do I need to finish the conversion? Does it matter if my older 870 has a 2.75 chamber?

 

[Virginian]

That should do it. 2-3/4" doesn't matter.

 

[AI&P Tactical]

If you have a non flex tab weapon then you have a cast aluminum trigger plate assembly already and there is no reason to buy another one. The only difference in the Police trigger plate assembly and any other cast metal one is one spring and that is part is used as the carrier dog follower spring and is part #F16966 and it cost $4. The flex tab carrier cost $20 and is part #F102109. These are simple to install and there is a how to video showing how on my web site www.aiptactical.com. To change the carreir dog follower spring you have to remove the carrier so you can upgrade your trigger plate assembly with both parts in about 5 minutes and $24.

So you don't need to buy a $94 trigger plate assembly.

 

[splithoof]

thank you…going to the workbench to pull trigger plate assembly right now.

 

[splithoof]

Well now….thank you for the knowledge. I always thought that this one was plastic, because it was so smooth and shiny, and I never pulled it apart. I really got back into shotguns after my last class at Gunsite, and for that I brought a Marine Magnum that I had aded some accessories to and had a great experience. So when I got back, I dug this old 870 out of the safe. It came as a police model in 1980-82, had a plain stock and for end, but says "Wingmaster" on the side. Finish is a very nice and shiny blue. I still have the original owners manual and factory box that says "police". We paid $200 for it new at the time.

 

[AI&P Tactical]

The trigger plate assembly you have is a blued luster finish common to the Wingmaster and back in the day the police model was simply a Wingmaster with plain hard wood stocks and a 20" bead sight barrel. Later they began a Parkerized Model and called it the "Remington 870 Magnum". Next they started using the word "Police" and that freed up the word "Magnum" which they then started using on the Express Models. Every Express ever made from the very first one is on a 3" receiver and the barrels chambered for up to 3" and thus a Magnum. The word is a marketing word and means nothing because there are 2 3/4" magnum shells. In fact, when I began my career our shotguns where the same as the one you have and our department load was the 2 3/4" magnum 12 pellet 00 buck shot. We later got the ones Market "Remington 870 Magnum" and of course towards the end of my career the Parkerized 870 Police Models.

There is only one 870 and they differ only by furniture, finish and a couple small parts. So much is Marketing and only knowledge of the weapon can cut through all the mess. It is fustrating at times to read some of the forum post about these weapons. For example: A guy post that he bought the Police model because he does not want any MIM parts on his gun. Well, he does not know the weapon because every 870, every one has MIM parts. So, his decision of buying one model over the other was based on a lack of knowledge of the weapon.

 

[splithoof]

^^^That makes a lot of sense.
My "police" model came with a 20" barrel with adjustable sights.
In the time between our posts, I stripped apart the older police model, and everything looks exactly as you describe it. Out of curiosity, I borrowed another 870 (an Express) that has the upgraded Flextab system, and installed that whole trigger plate assembly into my older police model, using my original breech bolt and slide assembly (the part that sits on the twin bars). Using some dummy rounds for safety, I carefully cycled the action a few times, then at speed working the trigger and safety mechanisms as I learned at school. Everything seemed to work, including loading and unloading manipulations. Upon disassembly, everything looked OK.
So I figure that I do not need to buy another breech bolt and slide assembly? If that is the case, why does Brownells sell a "conversion kit" that includes those pieces?
Or was I missing something when I function tested with the newer Flextab system?

Yes, now I remember the 2.75 magnum shells; have not seen those in a long time.
I don't understand all the negative stuff about MIM parts; I have other firearms that have some MIM parts, and those as well seem to work 100%. I guess running 15K rounds through a newer S&W 625 is not good enough a test?

 

[Fred Fuller]

So I figure that I do not need to buy another breech bolt and slide assembly? If that is the case, why does Brownells sell a "conversion kit" that includes those pieces?

It was my understanding that there were relief cuts machined into those parts that allow the flextab to function properly ... the only 870 I ever changed over, I put in the whole kit. And I've only done one.

 

[Uniquedot]

It was my understanding that there were relief cuts machined into those parts that allow the flextab to function properly

My wingmasters don't have the feature, but the express does. I assume then the express would have these reliefs? I've never felt the need for it personally, but with my luck when I actually find the need for the feature it will be too late

 

[AI&P Tactical]

Yes, you need the slide and breech bolt. Your breech bolt is flat across the bottom and the flex tab breech bolt has a relief cut. Look at the picture. Old style is flat across the bottom and is the one on the left. New style has the relief cut and is the one on the right. This is a critical design to the flex tab conversion and you have not converted the weapon without it. The slide has an additional cut out for the tab on the forend tube assembly and this is also critcal to stablize the breech bolt as you are racking it back over a jambed shell.

View attachment 194329

 

[splithoof]

Copy that. Without my glasses I did not notice that small difference. I just ordered the kit and the carrier dog follower spring.
I also ordered my favorite replacement stock, a carrier for extra shells, a larger safety,and a green magazine follower (helps me see if I need to look). I already have a Magpul for end that I can put a TRL-1 light when it's not on my GSR.
When this one is all together it will give us four 870's that are nearly identical in configuration, enough so that any family member can operate each one without hesitation.
Once again AI&P, thank you for the knowledge and expertise. Your other site has also been helpful. See you there.

 

[Badlander]

How serious is this problem? I just bought an older 870 Wingmaster I am planning on using for home defense. Was just going to add A 18 or 20 inch barrel and A mag extension and call it good. Did I screw up?

 

[Fred Fuller]

I wouldn't worry about it (which is why I've only done one conversion, total). And that was because I got the conversion kit really cheep in a box of parts I bought, and I wanted to see how hard it was to do.

DO concentrate on learning to run the gun - pumping briskly in a two count operation, Count ONE being all the way back till the forearm stops, and Count TWO being all the way forward till it stops again. Also concentrate on keeping foreign material out of the way of the slide in both directions - hands, slings, clothing, etc. I've seen some nasty bites taken out of the palms of support hands by getting pinched between the back of the forearm and the front of the receiver, for example.

 

[Virginian]

I have never tied up an 870 in 40 years. That is shooting 870s at just about everything in all weather, with and without gloves. I also use 1100s a lot so I lead with the tip of the shell in all cases by habit. Having said that, I will probably do it next time out, but I do not think it is a necessary modification for me. I have seen several others do it, and I can clear it with a pocketknife. You need to decide whether you want to do it to your gun for yourself.

 

[AI&P Tactical]

Being that many of us have never been in a life or death situation or it has been many years ago, we need to understand that if a non flex tab 870 jambs up it becomes useless in a fight and you might as well throw it down. The flex tab allows you to clear the jam by racking the weapon back and thus keep on fighting. When it is all on the line you can't risk you life to flawed design. That is why the design was corrected.

Why would anyone risk their life to a weapon that can become jamb if you make an error, and being you are not normally in a life and death situation you can very well make that error if even for the first time in your life and maybe in this case the last time in your life.

Whoes life here is not worth $100?

Sorry buy my life is worth the $100 it would take to upgrade and older 870. If anyone here wants to take an old non converted 870 to a fight and count on it then that is your choice. I want the best weapon I can have and I want it 100% reliable.

 

[Uniquedot]

How serious is this problem? I just bought an older 870 Wingmaster I am planning on using for home defense. Was just going to add A 18 or 20 inch barrel and A mag extension and call it good.

I don't plan on messing with mine as I've never had a problem and had never even heard of it till the internet. I had a heck of a time several years ago trying to make it happen on purpose and the last time I tried to do it I was unsuccessful in doing it on purpose. Perhaps I'll try again. Note that if you do proceed with the conversion that there are always people out there looking for the older parts and you may actually sell them for enough to pay for your conversion parts.

 

[lemaymiami]

Like the last poster I never jammed up an 870 in training or on the street. The poppers we were isssued each day were hardly first rate weapons -all were barely "rack grade" at best and had seen every form of abuse imaginable. With rare exception, no matter what they looked like all were utterly reliable in use. I'm sure that the upgraded flextab configuration meets a need but in my case if I ever own another riot gun I won't feel the need to upgrade it. Maybe it was the training I received all those years ago or the way I learned as much about it as I could after I'd been forced to use one on the street.....

 

[Badlander]

Thank you guys. I feel better about my selection of an older 870. I will go ahead with my highly tactical mods of short barrel and mag extention. May consider the conversion later.
I paid as much for the older model as I would have for A new one. It is A much nicer gun though in my eyes.

 

[Triangle 66]

For those without the flextab, the immediate action drill to clear this type of malfunction is to grab the forend and buttstock and slam the butt of the shotgun as hard as you can against any hard surface. HARD. Like you may break the buttstock hard.

This will free the stuck shell and get you back in the fight. You can get a new stock later if it does break.

If you ALWAYS rack the forend forward HARD all the way and back HARD all the way, you will NEVER have this malfunction.

 

[Virginian]

It is not caused by not racking the fore end forcefully. It's caused by not inserting a shell into the magazine far enough to engage the shell stop. Unless there is something wrong with it, you should be able to rack an 870 very gently and it will still work fine, as long as you stroke the action ALL the way back, and then fully forward.

 

[AI&P Tactical]

I have never jammed an 870 in 50 years of shooting them. With that said I would not use a non flex tab coverted 870 in a fight. To even suggest such is wrong thinking and right up there with not bothing to wear body armor on duty or to not carry extra mags for your side arm. If one had ever been in harms way with little more then that weapon to protect themself they would want the weapon upgraded to the most dependable status that it could be. Yet, on one hand a persons feels they need a weapon to defend their life and the life of their loved ones and on the other hand they don't feel those lives are worth having the most reliable weapon available. Don't get it and guess I never will.