8mm-06

[Zombiphobia]

I recently learned of the existence of the 8mm-06 and I'm intrigued.

It's an 8mm/.323/7.92 etc.. bullet loaded in what is basically a neck-expanded .30-06 case.

I've got an M48 that I want to re-stock, re-barrel with a Pac-Nor straight-cylinder barrel(so far this is my choice) and a new stock, drilled and tapped for a Leupold 4-12x scope etc.. I'm not talking about bubbarizing this thing, I'm going to have it done properly if I do it at all. And I'm wanting to stick with 8mm, but I just saw that an 8mm-06 exists and Pac Nor makes barrels for them, and of course this would make the brass issue for re-loading a lot simpler.

Anyway, so back to the 8mm-06. Does anyone have experience with this cartridge? What can you tell me about the ballistic differences from the 8mm Mauser such as trajectory, effective ranges, pressure differences, and velocity comparisons.

If you have a recommendation of reloading components, please share, but mostly, I'm interested in what this cartridge can do.

I've read that it was a common conversion after WW2 and that it's a great cartridge etc...pictures of rifles and targets are also more than welcome.

 

[Liberty1776]

it really doesn't do anything much different than the 30-06

 

[d2wing]

The .35 Whalen is a necked up 30-06 that is considered to be good medicine for dangerous game in it's more potent forms. Factory loads are pretty mild. I think there are factory loads and rifles in that caliber made by Ruger and Remington.
I dunno if that helps.

 

[Vaarok]

8mm-06 is a cheap workaround cartridge invented to be economical to shoot, not because it was especially effective. Doesn't do anything other chamberings don't already cover nicely.

 

[RPRNY]

You gain 5 gr H2o case capacity - a bit more if you go 8mm-06 AI, and roughly 200 - 250 fps at the muzzle (not inconsiderable by any means). 8x63 vs 8x57. Why not? And why not Improve to a 40 degree shoulder while at it?

But please check with those in the know on forming the 8x63 brass from 30-06. I think I recall being told it's a little more complicated than running 30-06 through a neck expander. I thought it had to be annealed, expanded to 35 cal and then necked back down to 32 cal and trimmed. But I could be wrong...

 

[IndianaBoy]

If I understand correctly, the M48 uses an intermediate action that won't handle the long action cartridge like the 30-06 or 8mm-06.

So it will be a single load proposition if you do it.


8mm has plenty of punch for anything less than a grizzly anyway.

 

[MachIVshooter]

What can you tell me about the ballistic differences from the 8mm Mauser such as trajectory, effective ranges, pressure differences, and velocity comparisons.

Very little.

The 8mm-06 came to be out of economical necessity. There were lots of 8mm Mauser bring backs, and very little 8x57 ammo in the USA. There was, however, no shortage of .30-06 brass. Hence it was very logical to simply ream these mauser chambers to accept the longer .30-06 brass, and then neck the case up to accept .323" bullets.

Ballistic advantages are really nil. It was created to make these war trophies shootable.

Performance with the heavier (200 gr +) .323" bullets may also be questionable, especially at longer ranges, since many of them were developed for the much faster 8mm Remington Magnum. I suspect a bullet like the Sierra 220 gr. Gameking would perform much like a FMJ at 8mm-06 velocities.

 

[morcey2]

Performance with the heavier (200 gr +) .323" bullets may also be questionable, especially at longer ranges, since many of them were developed for the much faster 8mm Remington Magnum. I suspect a bullet like the Sierra 220 gr. Gameking would perform much like a FMJ at 8mm-06 velocities.

Sierra has a disclaimer on the 220 gr. gameking specifying that it is specifically designed for 8mm Magnum velocities and won't perform correctly from an 8x57.

I've thought about turning my spanish 8x57 into an 8mm-06 because I was told that the throat was shot out and I hadn't been able to get good groups with any ammunition through it. Enter the lee case trimmer and factory crimp die. I gave the rifle a new crown with the case trimmer and a brass screw w/ valve lapping compound. With that it was shooting sub-3" groups at 100 yards w/ rem-fed-win domestic wimp loads. I started handloading and was able to get that down to 2" with both 175 grain sierra sp and 200 grain partitions. After shooting some yugo M75 "sniper" rounds and getting 1" groups consistently, I picked up a lee FCD and the groups with the 175s, 200 grn partitions, and speer 200grn sp dropped to 1".

If you are going to rebarrel the rifle, I wouldn't pick 8mm-06. First, as others have said, it's too long for the M48 action. It can be made to function, but it's more work than it's worth. If you keep it as a 8x57, even with a new barrel, you'll be miles ahead.

The big question is, what is the rifle going to be used for? With a straight cylinder barrel, it's going to be all kinds of heavy, which implies a benchrest gun of some sort.

Matt

 

[.333 Nitro Express]

I respectfully disagree with some of the posts here. The 8mm-06 has some differences with the 8x57mm that, although not earth-shattering, are worth noting.

1 - Case is .25" longer and case capacity is larger.

2 - In a modern action, the 8mm-06 can get a good 100-200 f/s over the 8x57, especially with heavier bullets (200-220gr).

I would say that the 8mm-06 is to the 8x57 what the 280 Rem is to the 7mm Mauser. They all are fantastic cartridges (I happen to prefer the historical ones because of their, well, history), but the '06-based numbers are interesting in their own regard.

 

[DM~]

The 8MM 200NP works "perfectly" in both the 8x57 and the 8mm-06.

The 8x57 does NOT meet my mininum for big bears, but the 8mm-06 does. That added velocity just pushes it over the edge for me.

The nose on a 200NP always gives some expansion, even at 8x57 velocities on small animials, and the base ALWAYS stays together and drives in deep, usually on through, even at magnum velocities.

Here's one of the FEW 8mm 200NP's i've recovered, this one took a raking shot on a HUGE buck, taking out the top of both shoulders and several inches of the back!



MV was 2,550fps, distance to impact was about 140 yards...

DM

 

[Smokey Joe]

Re-bbl'ing...

Zombie Phobia--Some thoughts: Firstly, the M-48 is a great Mauser action. But, as pointed out, it is shorter than the K98k on which it is based. So a longer cartridge (as in the 8mm-'06) might be a problem.

Secondly, since you're re-barrelling anyhow, you have the choice of a wide variety of cartridges. I'd stick with something with the same base diameter as the 8mm, unless you want to have to re-work the bolt, extractor, and perhaps the magazine follower as well. But you surely are NOT married to the 8mm.

Thirdly, getting brass for the 8mm is no longer the problem it was at the end of WWII, when all those K98k's were being converted. You can buy brass from any of the mail-order reloading component suppliers, and if you neck-size after fire-forming, it'll last a LONG time. A couple or 300 cases should last you for many years. Buying loaded ammo is no problem either--While not to be had at every corner gas station, it can certainly be had at any well-stocked sporting goods store. Personally, I've never had a problem buying 8mm ammo. So, you could just stick with the original cartridge.

Fourthly, a straight cylinder bbl will, as pointed out, be a little heavy for woods carry. If you are planning this as a benchrest rifle, I would definitely consider one of the cartridges designed specifically for accuracy--the 6.5mm Creedmoor comes to mind, as it is shorter than an 8mm round, but has the same base diameter. Or the .308 Win on which it is based. BUT--on further reflection--If you are considering a benchrest gun, with all the attendant expense, you'll have to also do some expensive improvement on the M 48 action.

It's YOUR rifle. Please yourself. Do what makes YOU happy.

 

[Gtscotty]

Well, as long as you are re-barreling, and looking at going with an over-.30 caliber, have you considered going further over .30 cal? Even if the M48 action can't handle standard length cartridges, you still have some interesting options like the .338 Federal, .358 Win and 9.3x57. If you can fit standard length cartridges, your options expand further to include numbers like the .338-06, .35 Whelen, 9.3x62 and .375 Hawk. Just a thought.

 

[Boxhead]

Really no sense in going from an 8x57 to 8x63 anymore. I'd leave it.

 

[Kachok]

If I was going to neck up 30-06 brass I would prefer a 338-06, better bullet selection then 8mm.

 

[DM~]

It doesn't matter one bit to me what caliber has more or less bullets available! AS LONG as there is one or two that will do the job for me!

In 8mm, the 200NP works perfectly! For practice i can shoot 200 Speers, for lighter loads there's the 150 Sierra.

I also have shot a LOT of big game with the .338-06, in fact i've been shooting one since the 70's.

There again, i only use one or two bullets in it too!

DM

 

[Gtscotty]

Most reloaders view increased bullet selection as a good thing... Some rifles can be kind of picky when it comes to bullets.

 

[CraigC]

Rechambering an 8x57 and getting an extra 150fps is one thing but I really can't see chambering a brand new PacNor barrel in 8mm-06. Not when there are SO many other choices available.

 

[Captcurt]

Rechambering an 8x57 and getting an extra 150fps is one thing but I really can't see chambering a brand new PacNor barrel in 8mm-06. Not when there are SO many other choices available.

Must agree. It is one thing to rechamber an old existing barrel as an upgrade but to chamber a new barrel for such an oddball makes little sense. 338-06 would be my choice for an easy fix. 325 WSM for a little more bolt work.

For anyone wanting to load for some of the old 8mm's please be aware that the guns made before 1904 In 88 and 98 Mausers used .318 diameter bullets. A modern .323 bullet in one on these would be a disaster.

 

[Zombiphobia]

After reading all of the replies, and realizing that I had NOT considered the WW2 bring backs were original K98 rifles, which is a bit different than my M48.. this COULD be a problem. I asked the customer service rep at Pac-Nor and a awaiting a reply.

The primary reason I was considering the 8mm-06 is the cost of 8mm Mauser brass is still not quite what I like to pay, and I have read about the annealing process process, which i feel comfortable doing.


On further reflection, while I like the idea of having a 'wildcat' cartridge that few others have, it is likely more trouble than it's worth to me.

I am going for accuracy. Not a woods-carry rifle. It's fine and dandy for that as is.

And on even further reflection, I already have reloading gear for .308 Winchester, BUT I'm seeking a bit more oomph at a bit more range, easy to find or alter components etc... so I don't want to take it down to .308, though that actually would be the EASIEST choice...

I suppose what I'm looking for is accuracy, combined with ease, and then add in a bit of the unique/mine factor, and then multiply by longer range.

I may very well keep it at 8mm Mauser since the receiver is made specifically for it. My only hang-up, still is brass that is made for it.

NO stores around me sell it. Period. I have to mail order everything except powder and primers. If anyone does have it, it's a drive that I don't care to make and would rather pay shipping costs.

I've got an academy and Kevin's Sporting Goods. Those are the most well-stocked stores around me, and neither of them seem to to even know what an 8mm is. "Do you mean a 9mm carbine?" is the question I'm greeted with when I ask about it.:banghead:


So.. mail order. Since I'll be mail ordering all components for re-loading ANYWAY, if I stick with an 8mm bullet, which I like. A lot.

On the other hand, I could have it made into something easy to find and still get what I need out of it. the 6.5 Creedmore or 6.8 Special are both easy to find, but I know jack about them right now. Plenty of time to learn, though.

Maybe .300WSM? Or .. I dunno. I'm open to suggestions.

And to be completely honest, this will be a 'MINE' rifle. I like recoil, so I've already decided on a lightweight stock. Yeah, I'm being a jack-... and adding in the bleeding forehead factor to keep other shooters from liking it too much.

But seriously, all kidding aside, I'm shooting for unique to match range and accuracy without over-powering my receiver.

I'm considering a Rem700 or Savage 110 receiver for the something that can take a more powerful cartridge than my M48 later.. but that's later.


Anyway, I know it's a jumbled mess, but I appreciate the replies.
I'm leaning on keeping 8mm Mauser.. but I'm just not sure about brass... oh well. Like I said.. gotta mail order everything anyway if I keep .323 bullets.
That's a lot of extra spending to add up shiiping just to have a 'me' gun, isn't it?

 

[RPRNY]

Now that we have more information and since you will be buying brass mail order anyway, part with a few more shekels and have your barrel done in 6.5mm for a 6.5x57. Not too be confused with the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser (or the 6.5x57R), the 6.5x57 Mauser is, as you can imagine, the 8x57 necked down to 6.5mm. It remains a very popular round in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland today and has ballistics very very similar to the .260 Rem. If you want accuracy, a different cartridge, and something fully in keeping with your Mauser's heritage, the 6.5x57 is an excellent choice.

Brass (and factory ammo) are available from RWS and both PPV and S&B do European CIP spec factory ammo at $16 - 18 a box. Brass can be easily formed by necking up the .257 Roberts or necking down the 7x57 (not that these grow on trees either). RCBS and CH4D among others have dies and your 6.5mm bullet selection is fantastic - including the Berger VLD Match. 6.5mm SD and BCs are well known and long a choice for long range precision. This is a great cartridge, realistically the same as 6.5x55SE loaded to CIP Spec, and does everything you want really well.