9.3x62 vs 338 Lapua for African plains game

[New2Milsurp]

New2- You can find several makes of rifles in 9.3x62 on Gunbroker.com In fact, the other day I saw several Ruger #1 models in 9.3x62...which is also in the "nostalgia" area as the Ruger #1 really looks similar to the old Farquharson single shots used in Africa. A single shot is all you need for plains game anyhow. heck, the Old Timers took on elephant and such with muzzleloaders, then the "new" modern brass cased single became all the rage, ha. You can also find a few Remingtons and Ruger bolt guns in 35 Whelen. From your postings, I don't think you would be happy unless you got a 9.3x62, ha. It is a gem dandy round, its just not going to be easy to take 300yd plus shots....which is rare in most parts of Africa anyhow! That Ruger Mod 77 African I had in 9.3x62 was a really handsome rifle...if you like the Old World German influence, the CZ 550 Mannlicher is a classic! Scope it with a 1.5x5, a 2x7 or 2.5x8, "maybe" a 3x9 ( you don't want to bulk up the lines on this kind of rifle anyhow) and have a ball!

You know what, I think you are right . I eventually want to try my hand at one or two members of the "Big 5" (mostly the water buffalo and the leopard, but I'd also like to take a crack at a hippo) so I'll probably end up with a .375 at some point as well, but for most of the regular hunting I intend to do (Plains Game in Africa, Moose in Canada, etc) I think the 9.3 would be my go-to gun. Which...come to think of it...means you all have actually answered my question! On a side note I got so worked up over doing research for these calibers and looking into African hunts that I've moved the date from "some time in 2020" to "putting down a deposit for 2017" lol.

 

[Jim Watson]

Trophy fee for a hippo in South Africa is $5500 in addition to the safari cost of just getting out there and hunting.
A Cape buffalo will cost you $8500 there.
Leopard is $7000 plus CITES regs - the do-gooders really don't want you to shoot a "spotted cat." At one time you could not even bring the hide home to the USA.
Rates will likely differ elsewhere but really big game is expensive.

No water buffalo in Africa, not even closely related to the Cape buffalo which is a major big big game critter.

Most of the old African colonies/countries had a .40 caliber minimum for dangerous game, with a .375 H&H exemption because it is considered effective beyond its caliber.
Do they still? H&H will likely know of any current limits.

 

[RevJim]

Don't forget to take a look at that CZ 550 Kevlar Carbine. A 20" barrel is no handicap on a Medium caliber for the majority of hunting. it kills by that big fat bullet going a moderate speed anyhow. The 285-286gr bullet ( and the most nostalgic, used in Europe and Africa for decades) is the most common weight used in the 9.3, although there are many good bullet designs available now. Handiness, power, and milder recoil favor both that 9.3 and the Whelen, which is what I really like about them myself. You owe it to yourself to get set up in handloading...you don't have to be an expert nor invest a ton of money in your equipment either. Its a great hobby and it just adds to the experience when you take a trophy with ammo you loaded yourself! You could just handload practice ammo and take factory ammo on your hunts even, I do sometimes. In fact, Barnes makes a 250gr TTSX in 9.3 that would be an excellent all arounder. Also, take a look at a low powered scope and what Leupold calls a German #4 plex reticle...very quick. We Americans tend to gravitate to higher powered scopes mainly because we target shoot more than we get to hunt! ha I used a Leupold 2.5x8 on my .375 Mod 700 when I used it in the mountains...never shot over 200yds with it either! My furthest shot on elk has been around 250yds, that was with a 338 Winmag with scope on 6x. Perfect. I made a 347yds shot on a Black Wildebeast with my 35 Whelen Ackley and the 200X, scope on 5X...plenty. I also shot most plains game under 100 yds with that same rifle, except a 250yds shot on my last zebra, also with the 200X. 35 and 36(9.3) cal bullets on up cut a big enough hole that the thick skin stays open, a big plus for blood trails. Just keep an eye on Gunbroker and you could find the right 9.3x62 for you....you may even spring for an original Mauser 98 sporter for around $3000, ha! All joking aside, a rifle with iron sights and an easily ( not necessarily quick) detachable scope is good insurance in Africa. Example, I had a super lightweight Mod 700 custom in .340W, no iron sights, it kicked the guts out of my Zeiss Conquest scope while over there. I was able to use my friends 300Winmag( we shot the same zero) I discovered two things...a 340W is too dang much for a 5.5# rifle! and I could have used iron sights on everything I shot! Now, my Mod 700 Whelen came with good sights ( I replaced the rear with a better one) Not "needed" and if you have access to your brothers or guides rifle, OK. I just like to use my own equipment.
PS I forgot to add that many, many 9.3x62 users just shoot the Norma 232gr factory ammo and some just handload the same bullet. It has a very good reputation and recoils much less than the 285. Start out with those and later on, when you are used to the rifle, try a heavier load if you want. Really, they use that 232 on moose in Alaska and Sweden!

 

[H&Hhunter]

See here for legal minimum camber and FPE requirements in various African countries.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=604175

 

[Mike OTDP]

Boddington, in his book "Safari Rifles", made a point about ammunition availability. .375 H&H was by far the most accessible of the heavies.

 

[H&Hhunter]

.375H&H and .458WM seem to be two of the most readily available rounds anywhere I've been in Africa. I've spent time in Tanzania, South Africa, and Zimbabwe mostly.

 

[Jim Watson]

Is buying ammo in-country a real advantage?
How many critters are you going to shoot? Not likely to be doing much plinking.
I guess the airline could lose your suitcase with your 40 rounds of lovingly prepared kudu killers and send you shopping for replacement.

 

[RevJim]

Another option, btw, any good bolt rifle chambered for the '06 based rounds can be rebored or rebarreled. JES Reboring can even rebore one to 9.3x62 for around $225! A Mod 700 magnum ( i.e 7mm mag, 300mag,etc) is easily rebarreled to .375 H&H or my favorite, the .375 Weatherby ( which will also shoot standard .375 H&H. Am I messing you up, ha?

 

[H&Hhunter]

Is buying ammo in-country a real advantage?
How many critters are you going to shoot? Not likely to be doing much plinking.
I guess the airline could lose your suitcase with your 40 rounds of lovingly prepared kudu killers and send you shopping for replacement.

It's never been a major concern for me. But airline's losing luggage happens all the time.

 

[New2Milsurp]

Another option, btw, any good bolt rifle chambered for the '06 based rounds can be rebored or rebarreled. JES Reboring can even rebore one to 9.3x62 for around $225! A Mod 700 magnum ( i.e 7mm mag, 300mag,etc) is easily rebarreled to .375 H&H or my favorite, the .375 Weatherby ( which will also shoot standard .375 H&H. Am I messing you up, ha?

Oh, that's actually a really good idea! So, for anyone that has re barreled a gun, are there any disadvantages over a rife that was pre-made as the selected caliber? Anything with accuracy, more recoil, etc? I have no experience at all with re barreled rifles.
Also another question if you all have time: I was reading some hunting stories (with pictures) online and I saw someone shot a caracal with a .375 using a solid round. I didn't expect to see much except some pieces of hide scattered to the 4 winds but the cat looked very intact. Why is that? I always thought that such a round would just shred anything smaller than a moose but people are talking about taking the "little 5" (smallest antelopes, some about the size of a medium pup from the pictures) with this thing and I just do not see how. What am I missing?

 

[GooseGestapo]

Solids from large bore rifles are all about penetration, and breaking heavy bones such that the bone shards do most of the soft tissue damage.
Ever seen a deer shot with a 7mmMag, with a 8" exit wound? Most of that damage was caused by bone shards becoming secondary projectiles, cutting as they transit the tissue from the kinetic energy of the bullet impacting bone at 2,800+ fps.

The heavy large bore slugs are very strongly constructed, so as to not deform, or destabilize after hitting hard (or soft tissue, for that matter), so as to penetrate deeply, in a straight line. The flat tip solids actually do better than the traditional blount round-nose bullets. Military pointed solids are actually intended to yaw and destabilize inflicting greater soft tissue damage than if they did otherwise.

When shooting small game, the heavies often inflict less damage than small bore rifles with soft point bullets. Hence, the long used practice of taking small African game with a heavy rifle (meaning large caliber). There's not enough resistance from the thin, soft bones to get sufficient energy transfer from the bullet to do significant damage, though a humane kill is the foregone result.

It's one thing to "over kill" a small antelope, another altogether to get "jumped" by a lion, or Cape buffalo while carrying a 5.6x35R (aka .22Hornet). In the first instance, you lose some edible meat. In the second, YOU, LOSE! Edible meat!

Added; I've killed several whitetail deer with my .375Ruger. Damage is along the order of a .30/06 with a180gr bullet. Less than with 150gr bullets. However, the divots in the ground behind the deer are something to be seen! I wouldn't relish toting the 10lb .375 for a week hunting elk in Wyoming. However, I wouldn't be without it, hiking back to finish packing out the elk I shot previously shot with my 6.5lb 7mm08 or .30/06. (Rem.M-7, Colt Lt.Rifle (aka UltraLightArms).

 

[New2Milsurp]

Solids from large bore rifles are all about penetration, and breaking heavy bones such that the bone shards do most of the soft tissue damage.
Ever seen a deer shot with a 7mmMag, with a 8" exit wound? Most of that damage was caused by bone shards becoming secondary projectiles, cutting as they transit the tissue from the kinetic energy of the bullet impacting bone at 2,800+ fps.

The heavy large bore slugs are very strongly constructed, so as to not deform, or destabilize after hitting hard (or soft tissue, for that matter), so as to penetrate deeply, in a straight line. The flat tip solids actually do better than the traditional blount round-nose bullets. Military pointed solids are actually intended to yaw and destabilize inflicting greater soft tissue damage than if they did otherwise.

When shooting small game, the heavies often inflict less damage than small bore rifles with soft point bullets. Hence, the long used practice of taking small African game with a heavy rifle (meaning large caliber). There's not enough resistance from the thin, soft bones to get sufficient energy transfer from the bullet to do significant damage, though a humane kill is the foregone result.

It's one thing to "over kill" a small antelope, another altogether to get "jumped" by a lion, or Cape buffalo while carrying a 5.6x35R (aka .22Hornet). In the first instance, you lose some edible meat. In the second, YOU, LOSE! Edible meat!

Added; I've killed several whitetail deer with my .375Ruger. Damage is along the order of a .30/06 with a180gr bullet. Less than with 150gr bullets. However, the divots in the ground behind the deer are something to be seen! I wouldn't relish toting the 10lb .375 for a week hunting elk in Wyoming. However, I wouldn't be without it, hiking back to finish packing out the elk I shot previously shot with my 6.5lb 7mm08 or .30/06. (Rem.M-7, Colt Lt.Rifle (aka UltraLightArms).

Alright, thank you for that info! So (again, forgive my lack of knowledge please) is a Solid the same thing as a FMJ? Where I am at it is illegal to hunt with a FMJ, but if a solid is different then perhaps that is an option.

Thanks again!

 

[RevJim]

That's why I like the Barnes X ( TSX, TTSX now) they act like an expanding solid. I've shot many small deer sized Plains Game with that 300 WINMag and 180 barnes with very little damage, yet the insides were jelly! I shot an Impala at 35yds with that 340 Weatherby and 210XBT with same results! My Son In Law shot a huge, 300#+ hog at 20yds with the 286gr TSX in his 9.3x62 with very little damage too! Hard to beat them! I have a deceased ( tragic car wreck, I sure miss him too) friend who used the 300 TSX in his .375 H&H on both Leopard and elephant in Zimbabwe with perfect results. Solids are really only needed for Buffalo on up. You can get heavy solids for your 9.3x62 if you ever want to try them. As you said, solids and fmj are not legal in majority of places here...not needed anyhow. Right now, if are still not sure, your cheapest route to a 9.3x62 is the reboring option. Any good rebarrel job will run you around $550...a big chunk. Its worth it if you end up with a rifle that you like. My first 9.3x62 was a rebarreled Mod 70 Featherweight Classic in 30-06. Back then ( mid 90's) 9.3 anything was hard to find! I spent closer to $700 before I was done. It made a really nice rifle for the mountains, but with its 270gr Speer I used it just was not as flat shooting as my Whelen and 200X .

 

[H&Hhunter]

Here is a picture of the entrance and exit wounds from a cow elk that I shot with my .375H&H. She was taken with a 270 Gr TSX at about 80 yards. These big rounds don't do a lot of meat damage.

 

[RevJim]

a picture is worth a thousand words my friend! That could have been my 300, 338s, 375s I used myself with those Barnes!

 

[Robert]

Yes and no. The while they may look similar the construction is different. A FMJ bullet is lead covered by steel. A solid may be lead or steel covered in either steel copper washed jacket. A solid is meant to penetrate through tough hide and smash large heavy bones to reach vital organs, crippling and killing the animal. An expanding bullet will not make it through the hide on some dangerous game. A solid does not expand so much as it deforms.

http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/products/full-metal-jacket

Heh, it seems Woodleigh calls them FMJ, which technically they are.

 

[H&Hhunter]

There are monolithic solids and there jacketed solids. Both of which are considered nonexpanding. Both of which are generally illegal to hunt big game with in the USA. Both of which are widely used in Africa.