9mm 127gr Winchester Ranger T-Series JHP +P+ question

[ChCx2744]

I figured this would be the most appropriate section to post this in, but that's just what I figured. Moderators, please feel free to move if I am in the wrong.

My question is in regards to the aforementioned ammunition. I was wondering if this ammo was safe to shoot out of a Gen 3 Glock 19? I called GLOCK this morning to see if they were familiar with the ammo (I was transferred to another department from the secretary) and if it was safe to shoot +P+ ammo out of a GLOCK and the guy was clueless. He only specified that I would have to call the ammo manufacturer and see if the ammo was SAAMI certified/safe.

Does anyone know if this ammo is safe to shoot in my GLOCK or am I going to end up blowing up my gun? If GLOCKs aren't +P+ rated, I don't know if I'm comfortable putting this stuff in here.

 

[tjbeck]

I have shot about a hundred rounds of it in my Gen3 Glock 19. I had no ill effects and it is my standard carry load for my Glock, Kahr and EMP. None of them 'recommend it'. IMO as long as you don't shoot a steady diet of +p+ through it you will see no extra wear, tear or ill effects.

 

[browncoatdawn]

never used it

I have never used anything +p+, but from my reading, most of the CZ lines are rated for Nato spec ammo, regularly mind you. Just an option to consider.

This is a CZ day of praise for me lol.

If I recall, Glock said that they dont recomend any consistant diet of +p or +p+ ammo, which makes me wonder why they are so common in Nato and allied service? I would guess that it would be wise to keep a close eye on cases, primers, as well as all bearing and contact points on the pistol.

Personally I don't see much need for the excessive muzzle blast and flash in ammo that hot. I wonder what shot recovery would be like.

 

[Dogguy]

No guns are really rated for +P+ because no one has set standards as to what constitutes +P+. It's just a pressure higher than +P (which is a standard set by SAAMI). Since no one knows what Brand X uses as their +P+ as compared to Brand Y, no gun manufacturer will tell you it's okay to use +P+ ammo.

I generally stick with +P ammo but you won't break your Glock if you occasionally shoot +P+ ammo. The continuous use of +P+ ammo might cause some accelerated wear to the gun over time.

 

[Deaf Smith]

+P+ 127 Winchesters is ALL I use for defensive use in my Glock 26 pistol.

I have chronoed it at 1240 fps from it.

Best overall 9mm ammo made for self defense.

Deaf

 

[Random Discharge]

+P+ 127 Winchesters is ALL I use for defensive use in my Glock 26 pistol.

I have chronoed it at 1240 fps from it.

Best overall 9mm ammo made for self defense.
^^^^^^

That's one way to turn a Glock into a 357 magnum 125gr JHP

Good information all in prior posts. Only thing I can think to add is to lay in a good supply of fresh recoil springs if you're going to shoot this stuff and change them out frequently.

 

[ugaarguy]

I'm neither a lawyer, nor an engineer, so I assume no liability for anything that follows. I'm a random person on the internet, and as such use your own judgement in this matter.

However, the Glock 26/19/17 are probably the three most common 9mmx19 handguns in service with US Law Enforcement. Winchester Ranger, everything from standard pressure to +P to +P+, is Winchester's LE ammo line. Ask yourself: Would Winchester produce a round, only available in their LE ammunition line, that was not / is not safe in one of the most commonly used LE firearms? Use your own judgement. I'm not saying do or don't.

 

[Loosedhorse]

The following is from the Walther PPS manual. I doubt that the manual for any current 9 says anything much different.

“Plus-P” (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the wear characteristics of your PPS pistol.

“Plus-P-Plus” (+P+) ammunition must not be used in WALTHER firearms. This marking on the ammunition designates that it exceeds established industry standards, but the designation does not represent defined pressure limits and therefore such ammunition may vary significantly as to the pressures generated.

Interesting that the SAAMI max pressure of 9mm NATO loadings is apparently lower than that for +P loads.

 

[amd6547]

It is my favorite 9mm SD load...I have used it in Browning HiPower, Beretta 92FS, and Glock 17 & 26.

 

[usmc cannon cocker]

357 sig

If you consider that Glock chambers the .357 sig without (I believe) any different components than what is in their 9mm models, it shouldn't be a problem using +P+ in a 9mm.

 

[usmc cannon cocker]

I'm wrong

I forgot that the barrel OD is smaller on the 9mm.

 

[ChCx2744]

Anyone know what the SAAMI max pressure for 9mm (App. 34,084) vs this ammo is? Can't find it anywhere on the web.

 

[PabloJ]

Guess I'm blue bucket to the left but I never found 124gr Gold Dot to be lacking against "cardboard". I have no need nor desire to shoot the hot stuff.

 

[Snowbandit]

That's my preferred defense round for the 9MM and I've used it for years in my Beretta with no ill effects. I did order a heavier recoil spring from Wolfe. As others have said, it usually clocks 1240 -1250 fps and is extremely accurate. If you're going to use a lot of it see about a heavier spring but, a few rounds here and there shouldn't be a problem. It's not practice ammo.

 

[Steve C]

Winchester +P+ ammo is produced for the LEO market and is not generally available to the public except as surplus ammo. LEO's are issued modern high quality and relatively new firearms that are kept in good condition, something that many of the firearms owned by the public is not. If everyone would have and maintain their firearms like law enforcement then there would be little worry about using relatively small amounts of a major manufacturers +P+ in any gun. +P+ is harder on and causes more wear on a firearm, even police forces where the public pays for the ammo generally practice with lower powered ball ammo, not the +P+ carry loads.

There is no SAAMI standard for +P+, it means that the pressure is in excess of +P. No manufacturer of firearms is going to tell you its OK to use +P+ ammo in their gun because of the variable in public ownership. The litigiousness of many in the general public who think that if something happen to them or their gun because the manufacturer said it was ok that they should be liable for any event even if it was caused by something they did like add aftermarket springs or barrels or shoot 5K rounds of +P+ without maintenance.

The Ranger 127gr +P+ ammo is very accurate ammo. I have bought some +P+ 127 Win Ranger SXT's and have tried them in my Glock 19 and found they would seize tight enough in the chamber that they wouldn't extract reliably. Could be the chamber was a bit rough or a bit dirty, regardless I don't use it in my G19. It does shoot very well in my Beretta 92 so I keep it loaded with the +P+ ammo and use standard pressure Ranger Partition Golds for the Glock.

I'd suggest you buy a small amount to +P+ ammo to test before buying much more. Use it with common sense and at your own risk.

 

[Frozen North]

It works well in my G26. No signs of excessive pressure are present, and if functioned 100% for 500 rounds. The water jugs tell me this stuff hits allot harder than anything else I have shot at them, and expansion was 100% on the 15 or so bullets I recovered. The recoil was not much more fierce than any other ball ammo I have used, and it is still far below .40 S&W.

Those talon hooks may make no real world difference, but they sure look cool....

This is stuff is my choice for carry ammo. IMO, it is the best 9mm carry ammo out there.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

Runs fine in my bhp.

 

[Dogguy]

"...I never found 124gr Gold Dot to be lacking against "cardboard". I have no need nor desire to shoot the hot stuff."

The 124 gr Gold Dot +P and the 127 gr Ranger +P+ are very close in velocity. Go to the respective ammo maker's websites and compare.

 

[Deaf Smith]

USMC,

Yes if you wanted more power I'd go to the Glock 33 (which I also have along with the 27 and 26.)

But I have plenty of +p+ 127s for my 26 so I use them and the little weapon will make consistent head shoots at 25 yards in my hands!

The Glock 33 will get a 125gr JHP at 1300 to 1350 depending on the brand. Yes that is equal to a .357 magnum 125gr from a 2 1/2 inch barrel M66 (and I have THAT gun to!) You can use the 9mm for practice (I have a 26 set up just as a practice gun with an AACK .22 unit to) and carry a .357 Sig or .40.

Why do I have all three sub-compact Glocks? Simple, no ammo shortage will affect me! I can find good JHPs for all three and all three are tested and have NY-1 triggers and Glock night sights.

One catch guys, do color code the mags and maybe somehow make the guns a bit different so you won't stuff .40s in your .357 Sig or 9mm. It can happen as they can take the same mags (but NOT use the same ammo!) And you can sort of put 9mms in a .40 or .357 mag but they sure don't work well!

Deaf

 

[Jath]

The best option IMO is to go with the glock 22 or 32. The 22 is a .40 cal which is pretty much standard for police nowadays anyway. The 32 is a .357 sig, which is a +p+ 9 already... And the benefit to both weapons is that they accept each other's barrels with no other changes, making them fire the alternate ammo. The barrels are something like $160. You'll have two guns for just a little more than the price of one.

 

[Frozen North]

He already owns a 19, and maybe he really likes it...

 

[SouthernBoy]

The RA9TA Winchester Ranger load, 127gr +P+, runs at around 42,000 CUP. The Glock 19 will handle up to 43,000 CUP. The reason gun manufacturers don't recommend +P+ loads is because there is no SAAMI standard for them as pointed out in Steve C's post #15.

So yes, the Glock 19 will handle this load and in fact, I have some and have used it to check for functioning and operation in my 3G G19. And if you are still concerned about this, try to get your hands on some Federal +P HST in 124gr or 147gr. The +P 147gr version of this load has the same penetration results as the Ranger 127gr +P+ and expands a little larger.