easyg
Member
Boy, you'll argue about anything...
"Farther" and "further" are interchangeable in everyday speech.
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9mm, 40 cal, or 10mm?
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"Farther" and "further" are interchangeable in everyday speech.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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9x19mm
10mm
.45 acp
NOT .40
That's what I've done. I currently have four 9x19s, two .45 acps, one 9x18, and revolvers. I may get another 10mm at some point. But the nine is fine (espec. with ammo prices as they are).
10mm
.45 acp
NOT .40
That's what I've done. I currently have four 9x19s, two .45 acps, one 9x18, and revolvers. I may get another 10mm at some point. But the nine is fine (espec. with ammo prices as they are).
EBRDude
Member
I have carried 9mm, 40S&W, 357Sig and .45ACP. Now I carry a G20 in 10mm.
They all worked. People argue effectiveness because they like to argue, not because one is actually any more effective than another. The Pistol is only a tool, and the user of the tool is what determines it's effectiveness.
But, I do really like the 10mm. The shockwave will kill you if you miss.
They all worked. People argue effectiveness because they like to argue, not because one is actually any more effective than another. The Pistol is only a tool, and the user of the tool is what determines it's effectiveness.
But, I do really like the 10mm.
The shockwave will kill you if you miss. Run a search on Dr. Gary Roberts and you'll find the list he developed, based on testing rounds via the FBI format.
As to what will penetrate through and through, a lot of things are involved. Any round can overpenetrate depending on where you hit, what you hit, etc.
A well-engineered 147 JHP will penetrate to the FBI specs while expanding vigorously.
DougDubya
Member
Well, easyg - I'd just like to know, have you heard of shootings where 124 grain Gold Dot has resulted in "stupid amounts of bullets" pumped into an assailant?
Were any of those "stupid amounts" center hits in vital areas where the target should have fallen down even if it were ball ammo, or were all the "stupid amount" peripheral, non-vital injuries?
I said the Gold Dots had a good reputation. You sighed and rolled your eyes, but didn't provide opposing anecdotal information. I re-iterated about Marshall, Ayoob, and Farnham, and I have to check, but Gold Dot 9mm was also on Chuck Taylor's list of suggested, reliable, excellent performing ammunition for the 9mm. If Chuck Taylor speaks well of a 9mm defensive load, that goes beyond belt and suspenders endorsement, since it's the most experienced of modern, living large bore advocates saying so.
Were any of those "stupid amounts" center hits in vital areas where the target should have fallen down even if it were ball ammo, or were all the "stupid amount" peripheral, non-vital injuries?
I said the Gold Dots had a good reputation. You sighed and rolled your eyes, but didn't provide opposing anecdotal information. I re-iterated about Marshall, Ayoob, and Farnham, and I have to check, but Gold Dot 9mm was also on Chuck Taylor's list of suggested, reliable, excellent performing ammunition for the 9mm. If Chuck Taylor speaks well of a 9mm defensive load, that goes beyond belt and suspenders endorsement, since it's the most experienced of modern, living large bore advocates saying so.
VirgilCaine
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- Nov 24, 2005
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- 617
Ah, I see. I didn't think of it that way.
DougDubya
Member
If it's one thing my idiot savant brain understands, if not human interaction, then it's my onerous gun obsession which makes me a pariah among anti's, and a loud-mouthed know-it-all with no real experience backing me up.
mpmarty
Member
For a first pistol, a 9mm is just a 10mm or a 45acp with training wheels. Go for it. I would caution against the Glock for a number of valid reasons... cost, ergonomics, felt recoil vs. a CZ or DW 1911 type or even a Witness full size all steel.
DougDubya
Member
mavracer - I was just attacking myself for an act of my own stupidity, and for the fact that the only time I feel useful is conveying my vast library of gun knowledge (which is second hand from numerous sources) on the interwebs.
Easyg - the comment was NOT meant against you.
I forgot to leave another board's drama, and my subsequent self-flagellation, outside.
Easyg - the comment was NOT meant against you.
I forgot to leave another board's drama, and my subsequent self-flagellation, outside.
Lonestar49
Member
Quote: OK guys, calm down and let's get back on track. Can anyone make a difinitive recommendation? Here's my past post. What do you guys shoot out of your 9mm's?
Quote:
Presently, I am shooting a Glock 19 and using Speer LE Gold Dot, 9mm Luger +P, 124 GR., GD Hollow Points.
Can anyone recommend a more potent 9mm round in place of what I'm shooting now, or am I OK with what I have?
Please don't suggest a larger caliber, I like the 9mm.
-------------------
...
First, I've got to laugh with DD, (not at) as a man who can publicly laugh at himself shows a human character flaw that we all have a few of.. but that shows class in my book..
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Subject: 9mm JHP ammo
Ok, there are trade-offs, first and foremost, with both my 9mm's one being a Sig P229 CT 9mm which is my night home HD/SD gun, and the other being a SA EMP 9mm for ccw, and what my wife uses when I'm not home, most of the time.
I use either 124gr or 134gr JHP in the Sig P229.. no +P, as both, for me, shoot, "recoil wise" and accurate wise, almost identical to my practice 9mm FMJ ammo which is 115gr. So, this keeps me "current" with how the gun will shoot, both in accuracy, fast-follow-up shots by, and with, the same felt recoil.. And with the EMP, that the wife shoots, and uses as well for HD/SD, either 115gr JHP or 124gr JHP.. so the gun acts and feels the same to her, and me, while shooting loads of 115gr FMJ range ammo for practice, with it.
So, If you go bigger, say from +P124gr to +P134gr, or even 147gr with, or without +P, there will be felt difference's from whatever range ammo you are now shooting with and what you feel with +P124..
The general rule of thumb that I know works, this, with my 40cals, is with 165gr, vs 180gr, the heavier bullet, goes a tad slower, but there is less recoil because of less spin-up while in the barrel, and less speed leaving the barrel but faster, back-on-target follow-up shots, with accuracy.
Whereas, the lighter the bullet, the faster it spins-up and goes out, thus more flip/recoil.. but slower follow-up shots and less accuracy if I try and and force the shots before the gun calms down.
So, be prepared for a change, one way or another from what you practice with and feel in FMJ vs what you're shooting now with the +P 124gr JHP.
The trade-offs are IMO, what do you shoot more accurate, with faster, more controlled-accurate follow-up shots with?
That's what you should be seeking in JHP's IMHO
Good luck,
Ls
Quote:
Presently, I am shooting a Glock 19 and using Speer LE Gold Dot, 9mm Luger +P, 124 GR., GD Hollow Points.
Can anyone recommend a more potent 9mm round in place of what I'm shooting now, or am I OK with what I have?
Please don't suggest a larger caliber, I like the 9mm.
-------------------
...
First, I've got to laugh with DD, (not at) as a man who can publicly laugh at himself shows a human character flaw that we all have a few of.. but that shows class in my book..
------------
Subject: 9mm JHP ammo
Ok, there are trade-offs, first and foremost, with both my 9mm's one being a Sig P229 CT 9mm which is my night home HD/SD gun, and the other being a SA EMP 9mm for ccw, and what my wife uses when I'm not home, most of the time.
I use either 124gr or 134gr JHP in the Sig P229.. no +P, as both, for me, shoot, "recoil wise" and accurate wise, almost identical to my practice 9mm FMJ ammo which is 115gr. So, this keeps me "current" with how the gun will shoot, both in accuracy, fast-follow-up shots by, and with, the same felt recoil.. And with the EMP, that the wife shoots, and uses as well for HD/SD, either 115gr JHP or 124gr JHP.. so the gun acts and feels the same to her, and me, while shooting loads of 115gr FMJ range ammo for practice, with it.
So, If you go bigger, say from +P124gr to +P134gr, or even 147gr with, or without +P, there will be felt difference's from whatever range ammo you are now shooting with and what you feel with +P124..
The general rule of thumb that I know works, this, with my 40cals, is with 165gr, vs 180gr, the heavier bullet, goes a tad slower, but there is less recoil because of less spin-up while in the barrel, and less speed leaving the barrel but faster, back-on-target follow-up shots, with accuracy.
Whereas, the lighter the bullet, the faster it spins-up and goes out, thus more flip/recoil.. but slower follow-up shots and less accuracy if I try and and force the shots before the gun calms down.
So, be prepared for a change, one way or another from what you practice with and feel in FMJ vs what you're shooting now with the +P 124gr JHP.
The trade-offs are IMO, what do you shoot more accurate, with faster, more controlled-accurate follow-up shots with?
That's what you should be seeking in JHP's IMHO
Good luck,
Ls
According to Jeff Cooper the whole concept is "Accuracy, power and speed." If you buy a 9mm and are going to practice with it 2x more because the ammo is 1/2 the price of another cartridge then you made the right choice. Without accuracy both power and speed are meaningless.
ScotZ
Member
I choose .40 S&W in a SIG 229. Not because the caliber is superior but because I fell in love with the gun and "WANT" to practice with it. I really enjoy shooting that gun.
When you find a gun that suits your shooting style (for lack of a better term). You will then have found the caliber that you are most likely to be most effective with. It is 80% about comfort with your weapon and 20% ammunition. MHO
When you find a gun that suits your shooting style (for lack of a better term). You will then have found the caliber that you are most likely to be most effective with. It is 80% about comfort with your weapon and 20% ammunition. MHO
fletchbutt152
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2006
- Messages
- 92
You missed one...already said but worth saying again.
You mentioned you shoot a 9mm better than a .40. So toss out the .40. Then you mentioned the 10mm. Without a doubt the most versital and effective round of the three provided you can shoot it properly. However it will be as hard as the .40 to shoot. In my Glock 20 the 10mm is beautifully accurate. But the thing is a hand cannon.
So, choose one that shoots as accurate as any of the three calibres, and has slightly more kick than a 9mm. In addition the ammo is fairly cheap compared to the 10mm.
I must stand by the 10mm. Buy the 10mm and then buy a Dillon 650.
You mentioned you shoot a 9mm better than a .40. So toss out the .40. Then you mentioned the 10mm. Without a doubt the most versital and effective round of the three provided you can shoot it properly. However it will be as hard as the .40 to shoot. In my Glock 20 the 10mm is beautifully accurate. But the thing is a hand cannon.
So, choose one that shoots as accurate as any of the three calibres, and has slightly more kick than a 9mm. In addition the ammo is fairly cheap compared to the 10mm.
I must stand by the 10mm. Buy the 10mm and then buy a Dillon 650.
NWdude83
Member
Start with the 9mm. Then after a year or more if you feel that you want more stopping power, go for the .40S&W . 10mm isn't a plinker round. Its a shoot your attacker, the guy behind him, and probably the guy behind that guy round. Its fun to shoot though.
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PaStEuRiZeD
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- Mar 28, 2008
- Messages
- 38
Wow this is from 2006.
NWdude83 wrote:
Start with the 9mm. Then after a year or more if you feel that you want more stopping power, go for the .40S&W . 10mm isn't a plinker round. Its a shoot your attacker, the guy behind him, and probably the guy behind that guy round. Its fun to shoot though.
That is a HUGE over statement. Most 10mm you can buy is about the same power as the 40SW. You have to hand load or buy hunting rounds to get some real power. I keep silvertips in my G20. I'll take 15rds of 10mm over 15rounds of 9mm or 13rds of 45 any day.
NWdude83 wrote:
Start with the 9mm. Then after a year or more if you feel that you want more stopping power, go for the .40S&W . 10mm isn't a plinker round. Its a shoot your attacker, the guy behind him, and probably the guy behind that guy round. Its fun to shoot though.
That is a HUGE over statement. Most 10mm you can buy is about the same power as the 40SW. You have to hand load or buy hunting rounds to get some real power. I keep silvertips in my G20. I'll take 15rds of 10mm over 15rounds of 9mm or 13rds of 45 any day.
Dandamian,
Given you criteria you'd likely be best served with a 9mm or the .40S&W. The performance differance in practical terms between the cartridges you listed, and a host of others, is probably academic at best to most, let alone newer, shooters. Find a good deal on whatever pistol and cartridge combination that you decide on, seek training, and start shooting.
Best,
Erik
Given you criteria you'd likely be best served with a 9mm or the .40S&W. The performance differance in practical terms between the cartridges you listed, and a host of others, is probably academic at best to most, let alone newer, shooters. Find a good deal on whatever pistol and cartridge combination that you decide on, seek training, and start shooting.
Best,
Erik
If you're looking for a general "what's best for bipedals" recommendation:
I am aware of two ISO rated* firearms programs, belonging to the FBI and DHS, respectively. They spend a good deal of time testing cartridge combonations with the mandate of recommending what to provide to the field. Most FBI and DHS agents and officers are issued side arms chambered in .40S&W.
* I cannot remember the exact rating. They're equally rated, and apparently the only such rated programs in the US. (If there are others in the US or abroad I'd be interested in hearing about them.)
The FBI famously declared a .40, 180 grain JHP pushed around 950 to be the "best." While that meant 10mm only at the time of the recommendation, no more, as that is a commonly available .40S&W load.
Honestly, though, the difference between the perfomance of the popular cartridges utilizing premium ammunition isn't what most make it out to be. As if there are people losing gunfights because they brought a 9mm nustead of a .40S&W; preposterous.
I am aware of two ISO rated* firearms programs, belonging to the FBI and DHS, respectively. They spend a good deal of time testing cartridge combonations with the mandate of recommending what to provide to the field. Most FBI and DHS agents and officers are issued side arms chambered in .40S&W.
* I cannot remember the exact rating. They're equally rated, and apparently the only such rated programs in the US. (If there are others in the US or abroad I'd be interested in hearing about them.)
The FBI famously declared a .40, 180 grain JHP pushed around 950 to be the "best." While that meant 10mm only at the time of the recommendation, no more, as that is a commonly available .40S&W load.
Honestly, though, the difference between the perfomance of the popular cartridges utilizing premium ammunition isn't what most make it out to be. As if there are people losing gunfights because they brought a 9mm nustead of a .40S&W; preposterous.
NWdude83
Member
Gotta keep the myths about 10mm going, right?
PAPACHUCK
Member
I've owned many handguns for many years, in all the popular calibers(except 10mm), and have settled on two calibers. 9mm and 45Auto.
My primary carry piece is a Sig P229 in 9mm loaded with 13+1 Fed HST's, and my primary HD weapon is a XD45 Tac loaded with 13+1 Winchester Ranger 230gr+p's.
I'm quite happy with my choices, for I shoot those weapons very well, and shot placement is paramount to me.
My primary carry piece is a Sig P229 in 9mm loaded with 13+1 Fed HST's, and my primary HD weapon is a XD45 Tac loaded with 13+1 Winchester Ranger 230gr+p's.
I'm quite happy with my choices, for I shoot those weapons very well, and shot placement is paramount to me.
ElPasoWrangler
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- Nov 8, 2006
- Messages
- 63
I own and shoot 45, 40 and 9. As far as their stopping power, I think about my deer hunts. A lot of deer went down right after being shot. But a large number ran until they bled out. The same is true of humans. You can shoot one with anything you want and kill them, even a 22 but none of them can be a sure instant stop unless you destroy their brain or spinal cord.
Some days I feel like a 9mm and sometimes I don't. Other days I carry several at once. I never feel under gunned or over gunned.
Some days I feel like a 9mm and sometimes I don't. Other days I carry several at once. I never feel under gunned or over gunned.
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