9mm question

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Zalinth

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So I have been reloading 9mm for about three to fours now and I am thinking I might have goofed on this batch I just made.

Here is my normal recipe.

Bullet - Barreys 115 Grain plated LRN.
Powder - 4.6g of WES231 (MAX is 4.8 Grains in my lee book and on hodgon website for lead data. My hornady book does not have any lead data just jacketed data.)
OAL - 1.13

All of my guns seem to like this load and never had a problem with it. Well I was looking in my lee book writing down the load data and I happen to notice that is said minimum OAL 1.100. I thought to myself oh crap have I been setting the OAL wrong the entire time. This might have been stupid on my part but I got the original OAL from a factory load that functions fine in my guns.

Well anyway long story short, I changed the OAL from 1.13 to 1.10 and all 100 are between 1.098 to 1.100. After cleaning the reloading bench up and walking up stairs that's when it dawned on me that I left the powder at 4.6 grains. So do you guys think these will be safe to shoot next time I go the range or are they going to be on the hotter side and it might be a good idea just to pull them and start over at the start load of 4.3 and work back up?
 
you should be fine. I would shoot them but if it makes you feel safer go ahead and pull them. For what its worth I would load them at 4.6 at 1.135. Thats what i load my berry bullets at and have pretty good results
 
No problem.

But, next time??

You can't go by what the Lee book says, because they don't even tell you what brand of bullet they are talking about!!

And no two brands of bullets are ever the exact same shape.

You set the OAL by doing the simple 'plunk test' in your pistols barrel.

See this about that!
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506678

rc
 
LKLive13 said:
you should be fine. I would shoot them but if it makes you feel safer go ahead and pull them. For what its worth I would load them at 4.6 at 1.135. Thats what i load my berry bullets at and have pretty good results
Click to expand...

Hey you are from Wichita, we are almost neighbors. Minus the hour drive :) lol
 
You should be fine.

I use 4.8 gr of W231/HP-38 with 115 gr FMJ/plated RN loaded to 1.135" OAL/COL as 4.6 gr will barely start to reliably cycle the slides of my Glocks (especially compact/subcompact with stiffer new recoil spring assemblies) and 4.8 gr loads produce greater accuracy - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7266869#post7266869

While with 115 gr RN bullets (FMJ/plated/lead/coated) with shorter base I prefer to use shorter 1.125" - 1.135" OAL to increase neck tension and initial chamber pressures, I will use longer OAL out to 1.160" when using less dense/fluffy powders like Herco to not compress the powder charge - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=745656

As to determining max/working OAL, as rcmodel posted Walkalong has an excellent thread you should check out as this post outlines why we shouldn't use the OAL listed in published load data - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8864541#post8864541
Determine the max OAL:
- Using a dummy round (no powder/no primer), start with the SAAMI max OAL and incrementally decrease the OAL until the dummy round falls in the chamber freely with a "plonk" and spin without hitting the start of rifling
- This OAL is your max OAL

Determine the working OAL:
- Put the barrel back in the slide and reassemble the pistol
- Lock the slide back
- Load the max OAL dummy round in the magazine and insert in the pistol
- Release the slide without riding the slide
- If the dummy round won't fully chamber reliably, incrementally decrease the OAL until it does
- This OAL is your working OAL
Click to expand...
 
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Thanks for the replies. I will just leave them alone and stick to my original OAL of 1.13 next time, since I know that load works just fine.


EDIT:
Thanks for the links too. I will defiantly check those out.
 
1.130 to 1.135 is what I loaded various RN bullets to in 9MM. I do have one I loaded .010 longer. (1.140 to 1.145)

I too agree that you will be OK, and also agree with your plan to go back to your original OAL.
 
Remember, the min OAL is a recommended minimum, and you can always go longer depending on what functions in your gun. That may reduce pressure slightly, but that's probably not going to cause problems unless you're loading at the light end of the range. You may not get full cycling. Adjust as needed.
 
As RC said, don't rely on Lee data. Normally they are so far on the safe side as to produce ftfs due to insufficient pressure. That said, I've found a few loads that were too hot.
They make pretty good dies, fair presses, and good moulds. The data, however, is like old Herter catalogs.....fun to read but full of hyperbole.
 
No reloading manual prints 'hyperbole' load data. That would invite a ton of lawsuits. Lee data is fine and can be used with confidence. Lee does like to hype his reloading equipment in Lee manuals.
 
All the Lee book is, is regurtated copy's of old Powder & bullet manufactures data.

It is not current data, as that would be copyright infringement.

Lee has no ballistics lab.
And does no load testing of their own.

It is all reprints from old data you can find if you look at old powder & bullet manufactures handouts from years ago.

rc
 
Well, how about the Lee 2nd. edition hasn't been revised since it was first published in 2003?

That's 12 years old right there.

It contains no data for any of the new powders introduced since the late 1990's.
That's over 15 years.

If you have a collection of old Hercules, Alliiant, Winchester, and Hodgdon powder guides dating back to 1962 like I do?

You will find the Lee manual to be an exact match to those old manuals that were free for the asking back then.

That's all the proof I got!

rc
 
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Yes, I have data that predates 1962. I am not going to argue with you. If you want to disregard Lee data that is your business. But don't claim it is 'hyperbole', because that is false (look up the definition of the word hyperbole in the dictionary).
 
Sorry. My intent was to reference advertising copy and not loading data. Those who remember the Herter's catalogs will see similarities in product descriptions.
 
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I also load Berry's RN bullets at 1.130", seems to be a happy medium.

My 147 grain RN, those are at 1.140", because the bullet is so long.
 
From Lee's 2nd edition for 9mm:

124 gr jacketed bullet with AA5 powder
Min 5.8 gr. Max 6.4 gr

I loaded a ladder of this loading with Hornady XTPs and shot it without seeing any signs of overpressure. So I then loaded a batch at 6.2 gr. For SD practice ammo.

Then I downloaded the Western Powders (mfg of AA5), and for a 124 gr. XTP they listed:

Min 4.8 gr. Max 5.7 gr.

NOT EVEN 0.1 GRAIN OF OVERLAP???

I broke them down. I will never again trust a Lee load I can't verify elsewhere, preferably with the specific bullet I have chosen.
 
I went back to their site and found that +p data in a supplement.

I guess that will teach me to not open my mouth without researching every detail. On second thought, who am I kidding?

Thanks ColoradoShooter77!
 
PapaG said:
As RC said, don't rely on Lee data. Normally they are so far on the safe side as to produce ftfs due to insufficient pressure. That said, I've found a few loads that were too hot.

They make pretty good dies, fair presses, and good moulds. The data, however, is like old Herter catalogs.....fun to read but full of hyperbole.
Click to expand...


Lee doesn't produce their own data. It's copied from other sources. When you are looking at Lee data you are looking at Speer, Winchester, etc., data.
 
My 1987 vintage Speer Manual notes the following:
* SAAMI maximum overall length is 1.169 inches.
* With smaller bullets, they recommend cartridge overall length (COL) of 1.08 inch for their 90 grain and 1.10 with their 125 grain bullets.
* They also caution that seating bullets just 0.30 inch deeper than necessary in one case saw a rise from 28,000 PSI to over 60,000 PSI.
 
Well I went to the range on Saturday and everyone of them shot just fine. Only issue I had was two out of the 100 short stroked on the last shot and it didn't lock the slide back. Happen once with my Beretta 92a1 and once with my ruger sr9c. Thinking my powder drop didn't drop 4.6 grains in those two or my thumb was resting on the slide release enough to not lock it back.
 
I've been loading 147 grain Berry's RN with 4.2 grains CFE-P, seated at 1.140". This is a max charge, but they shoot great. No problems at all.
 
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