9mm using Win231

[dwpmusic]

I haven't been reloading to very long so don't flame me for a stupid question, please. I've been loading 147gr 9mm Berry's RN using 3.7-3.8gr Win231.with a COAL of 1.150"-1.158". Would this same load be OK to use on some 124gr Berry's RN or should I increase the charge and/or OAL? Appreciate any and all replies!

 

[Walkalong]

Since it is safe with the heavier 147 Gr Berrys plated bullet, it will be safe pressure wise with the lighter 124 Gr bullet at the same OAL which will have the base of the bullet higher in the brass (Not seated as deeply). Some quick math will tell you how deep each bullet is compared to each other using the same OAL.

You may have to increase the charge .1 at a time to get what you want.

 

[Dwb1957]

No question is stupid we started out new at one time or another 3.7-3.8 would be a good starting point but I would not go any longer with the oal.

 

[ih772]

I haven't been reloading to very long so don't flame me for a stupid question, please. I've been loading 147gr 9mm Berry's RN using 3.7-3.8gr Win231.with a COAL of 1.150"-1.158". Would this same load be OK to use on some 124gr Berry's RN or should I increase the charge and/or OAL? Appreciate any and all replies!

What does your reloading manual tell you is a good safe starting point for that bullet weight, powder and cartridge length combination?

 

[Hokie_PhD]

What does your reloading manual tell you is a good safe starting point for that bullet weight, powder and cartridge length combination?

I was going to ask the same thing.

So I’ll instead ask which manuals does OP have? And why aren’t you double and triple checking in them?

If you have and are asking here as a sanity check or to be extra cautious then great. If not, you should always check a few manuals. And you can get some from powder makes free by going to their website and filling out a form. Likewise you can also get info from their websites.

Also keep in mind that min to max for Win231/HP38 isn’t much so you’re making a good move to be extra cautious.

As for that powder, I was given some from a friend to get started and it’s what I used until folks here convinced me to try BE86. I’d highly suggest you try it and you’ll love it a lot more than Win231/HP38

 

[Random 8]

Hodgedon lists this powder (online public domain data easily found on google) at 3.9-4.4 gr of W231 or HP38(identical powder) with the 124 Berry's at 1.150" COL. I would start on the low side of this, and see how your action cycles, increase by .1grain increments until you get reliable functioning and the accuracy you desire. I am using 4.2gr with a different cast/coated 124 grain to get reliable functioning across 3 different 9mms, one being a martial arm with a relatively stiff action.

I use HP38 extensively in 9mm, .38 and .357 for low to mid velocity cast bullets. It is an excellent powder in these applications, tried, true, accurate. You may wish to try others going forward, but for general target shooting with cast or plated bullets you cannot go wrong with this powder.

 

[dwpmusic]

Thanks for the replies, guys. Actually, I did check three reloading manuals before writing this post. I checked a Lyman, a Hornady, and a Speer. I couldn't find any 124gr FMJ RN suggestions in any of them. Possibly I overlooked one but I didn't see any. I normally load 147gr Berry's RN with 3.7/3.8gr Win231 or HP38 with a COAL of 1.150"-1.158". I've stayed with 147gr bullets for some reason because I've not had a problem with them at all and I shoot fairly well with them. I shoot a G19, G26 and a Ruger LC9. I actually ordered these 124gr bullets by mistake, thinking I had specified 147gr. I am extremely careful, or I try to be, because I realize I don't have the expertise that people who have been reloading for years have. I think I have enough info here to shoot these bullets with confidence. Thanks again for the quick replies.

 

[snakeye]

The starting load for a Berry's 124gr hollow back round nose (which is similar to the plain RN) is 3.9 gr with a max of 4.4 @ 1.15 OAL...3.7 - 3.8 is a little light so be aware you may experience cycling issues with a load that low, but you can work up to the max if that happens....I have loaded thousands of Berry's 124 gr RN at 4.4 which is my standard load for 9mm, but work up to what you are comfortable with.

By the way Berry's 124 gr RN and HBRN are plated bullets not FMJ. Hogdon's website lists Berry's bullets as BERB. That's probably why you didn't notice the load for that bullet.

 

[wrench459]

Whenever changing the bullets around.
I like to run a few dummy rounds to find the max. length to the barrel.
The ogives can and will change.

 

[berettaprofessor]

I use 3.8 grains of Win231 with a Berry's plated 124 round nose and OAL 1.150. Clocks in a bit light and slow at 900.3fps with an 18.9SD and is pretty accurate.

 

[dwpmusic]

Thanks again, fellas!

 

[gifbohane]

Berry bullets 124 RN and HP 38 is what I primarily load for my 9mm. I use 4.2 grains. YMMV

 

[Dudedog]

I have some chrono data with HP38 and a 125.
I was on the lower side because I was looking for something right around 125-130PF (about 1030fps) Some of these were a bit low.
Mixed range brass, S+B SP, charges as thrown after setting measure
5" 9mm 1911

String: 9
Date: 2/28/2016
Time: 9:13:21 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 989
Low Vel: 968
Ave Vel: 982
Ext Spread: 21
Std Dev: 9
Berry 124 HP 1.08 OAl 3.9 HP38
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
968 120.032 257.973
989 122.636 269.287
988 122.512 268.743
989 122.636 269.287
976 121.024 262.254
(does not make PF, PIF bullets limited supply no work up)
String: 1
Date: 2/28/2016
Time: 8:46:42 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1035
Low Vel: 977
Ave Vel: 1008
Ext Spread: 58
Std Dev: 23
XTREME 124 RN 1.12 OAl 4.3 HP38
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1035 128.34 294.92
995 123.38 272.565
977 121.148 262.792
1026 127.224 289.813
1010 125.24 280.845
(does not make PF-sort of, PIF bullets limited supply no work up)
String: 1
Date: 7/23/2017
Time: 10:43:16 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1001
Low Vel: 970
Ave Vel: 987
Ext Spread: 31
Std Dev: 13
RMR 124 HP-old 4.3 HP38 l 08 OAL
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
970 120.28 259.04
992 123.008 270.923
1001 124.124 275.862
977 121.148 262.792
996 123.504 273.113

String: 2
Date: 7/23/2017
Time: 10:44:23 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1046
Low Vel: 1003
Ave Vel: 1026
Ext Spread: 43
Std Dev: 16
RMR 124 MPR-HP 4.5 HP38 1.08 OAL
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1003 124.372 276.965 (This one messed up the SD and ES #s)
1036 128.464 295.49
1022 126.728 287.558
1025 127.1 289.248
1046 129.704 301.222




From Hodgdon's web site

125 GR. SIE FMJ Hodgdon HP-38 .355" 1.090" 4.4 1009 24,600 CUP 4.8 1088 28,800 CUP
124 GR BERB HBRN Plated Hodgdon HP-38 .356" 1.150" 3.9 920 27,400 PSI 4.4 1037 31,900 PSI
125 GR. LCN Hodgdon HP-38 .356" 1.125" 3.9 1009 25,700 CUP 4.4 1086 31,200 CUP

 

[kmw1954]

I too use HP-38 with both a 124gr Berry's flat base and hollow base and Xtreme 124gr plated. The listed starting load of 3.9gr will nor reliably cycle my pistol but just moving it up to 4.0gr was enough. I load between 4.1gr and 4.4gr because that is what drops when using a Lee Auto disk. Both loads work very well. I seat to 1.160 and 1.150 depending on how hot I want them.

If I'm loading for the wife and I I'll load the 4.1gr @ 1.160. When loading for just me I load 4.4gr @1.150 and to be honest at defense target ranges I see no difference in performance.

 

[dwpmusic]

thanks again, guys

 

[markr6754]

I too use HP-38 with both a 124gr Berry's flat base and hollow base and Xtreme 124gr plated. The listed starting load of 3.9gr will nor reliably cycle my pistol but just moving it up to 4.0gr was enough. I load between 4.1gr and 4.4gr because that is what drops when using a Lee Auto disk. Both loads work very well. I seat to 1.160 and 1.150 depending on how hot I want them.

If I'm loading for the wife and I I'll load the 4.1gr @ 1.160. When loading for just me I load 4.4gr @1.150 and to be honest at defense target ranges I see no difference in performance.

The first 5 star rating I gave to any load in my manual is HP-38 - 4.3gr with 124gr Berry's Plated Round Nose seated to 1.125". I've tried several other loads of HP-38, and between it and VV N-320 ([email protected]"), these are my favorites. I don't think I tried seating out that far (1.160 or 1.150), if I did it's in my paper log, and I suppose I didn't care for it as much. However, as I get a bit more proficient at loading, as well as improving my overall shooting technique, I'm open to going back and trying other loads. I still only have the Beretta 92FS, but I want to get a 1911 9mm in the near future. With as much as I've spent on reloading equipment and supplies to date, that will just have to wait a while longer.

 

[kmw1954]

Mark you've come a long way this year. Good for you.
Aside from that 1911 I'd suggest trying a Tanfoglio Witness with a metal frame. They are so sweet. I've been looking to add a 9mm or 40S&W compact to my collection. More than likely a 9mm so I can park and save my PT92C.

 

[markr6754]

Mark you've come a long way this year. Good for you.
Aside from that 1911 I'd suggest trying a Tanfoglio Witness with a metal frame. They are so sweet. I've been looking to add a 9mm or 40S&W compact to my collection. More than likely a 9mm so I can park and save my PT92C.

Well, let's not forget that I had some timely and expert correction/encouragement. I just looked up the Tanfoglio Witness Compact 9MM. Nice looking piece. I've seen the name a few times, but I've never seen or held one. It looks promising. I am a bit partial to the grip safety. I just like that extra level of safety that many consider a detraction. But I also like the sweet shooting of my 92FS. I'll have to check out my local gun shop and see if they carry any in stock...I know they can order one in from their warehouse...but unlikely they'd do that for a lookie-loo.