A case for ball ammo in short .45's?

[Katana8869]

I have always been a believer that one of the big reasons for using fmj was to control over-penetration while increasing wound capacity.

However, with a short barreled .45, I know that the slower burning powders used in .45 ACP ammo do not reach their full potential in a 3" tube. One of the key things effected is penetration, not to mention reliable expansion with 230 gr ammo.

Many suggest using rounds such as Golden Saber 185gr or other light bullet loads to aid expansion, but it seems to me that an aggressively expanding light hp round would case even less penetration.

For my use, I want to get a round into an attackers vitals more than I want a large mushroom. Since I am starting with a .45 round already, it seems that in my PT145, 230gr ball might be a viable choice as a SD load. The added feed reliability of fmj ammo also seems to be another plus.

Does anyone have any data on penetration -vs- expansion on .45 loads for short .45's? I have been doing alot of searching, but I can't seem to find a whole lot. Most data out there is for pistols with 4-5" lengths.

Many thanks in advance, I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.

 

[GunNut]

If you use a JHP, and it doesn't expand, it will pretty much work just like a FMJ round anyways.

I'd rather have a round that could expand, than one I know will not(FMJ).


Most modern autoloaders will feed JHP's fine, but it is still good to try them in your own gun.

Steve

 

[MICHAEL T]

Corbon has a non+P compact 45 DPX round I worked perfect in my compact .
I shot my old barn wall with 230 ball and then went up and pulled out the round with my fingers. Shot 1/4" lexan and 230 failed to go thru. These shots at approx 21'
DPX solved these problems Weapon Para P-10
I now carry this round in my Commanders

 

[ShelbyV8]

Corbon DPX 160 GR non +P 1050 FPS from a 3" barrel. It is what is in PT145.

 

[Onmilo]

"they all fall to hardball."

I have never been a fan of overpriced hollowpoints so I agree with your theory.
An even better choice would be a factory truncated nose lead bullet or a reload using this style of bullet if you don't concern yourself with potential litigation in the event of an actual shooting.

 

[jac714]

An interesting alternative is Federals EFMJ (Expanding FMJ) rounds, in their Personal Defense line they have a 165 GR low recoil (higher velocity about 1080 in a 5 inch) and in the tactical line they have a 200 gr +p.

They feed well and seem to offer higher velocity and more reliable expansion in a shorter barrel.

My .02

Good Luck

 

[Erich]

I used the 200-gr +P EFMJs in my SA Micro . . . BTW, I've worked on several shootings with .45 JHPs. They rarely give impressive expansion (most JHPs don't - the usual OMI language is "a moderately deformed bullet"). I've worked on a few with .45 FMJ - never seen an overpenetration yet (unlike 9x19 FMJs or one .40 JHP case . . . ), tho anything could happen.

 

[Crosshair]

Personaly I find that 45 Autos in general shoot lead very well. Don't know if I would use it for CCW though.

 

[orionengnr]

DPX is also available in 185 gr +p.

I have a box, but would need to shoot a bunch before i carry it.

Dr. Stephen Camp has an article on the 185+p from some medium-short-barreled 45s (Kahr P45 and PT145, I believe) and the results look pretty encouraging.

His site is www.highpowersandhandguns.com
or something similar.

best regards, rich

 

[Erich]

Dr. Camp! I never knew!

Rich is right: Stephen A. Camp surely should hold a doctorate for his wonderful, thorough site and his willingness to share his vast experience with all comers. No one would dispute that he's one of the nicest and most gracious gentlemen on the internet, either.

Here's his site: http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/

He's got a forum as well (accessible thru the site).

 

[Whirlwind06]

I carry 230 gn JHP in my 1911 Officers Model I figure if they open up great but if they don't still makes .45 inch hole.
Also I seem to remember 1911Tuner saying something about the lighter faster rounds, may effect the reliability of compact 1911's. Something about the bullet leaving the chamber so fast in compacts that there is not enough energy to work the slide.

 

[Katana8869]

Thanks to everybody who has replied so for. Everyone's input has been greatly appreciated. I am leaning toward the Cor-Bon 160gr DPX. One of the things that I like about what I have found out about it so far is that it is a standard pressure load unlike most of the "extra-spicy" loads that Cor-Bon puts out.

Golden Saber 185 is readily available in my area, but it seemed to have alot of muzzle flash when I tried it in my G36 last year. I think I am going to have to take a serious look at both though. I ran a magazine of it right after I bought my PT145 and that functioned fine so at least I'm of to a good start with it.

I'm still trying to decide on a carry load, so I guess I need to pick one and start function testing it!

As to the ball ammo, I probably will keep it in my spare magazine. However, I will carry ball ammo from either Federal or Winchester. I was fooling around with some Blazer ammo at my folks property today and noticed that I was getting alot of set back when I unloaded the gun. I know that Blazer is cheap, but it has a lousy crimp on it!

 

[Catshooter]

Katana,

If you serch around here and 1911forums.com you'll find quite a few who carry ball. Reliablility is an important factor.

Anything with much setback would scare me.

Right now my .45 us loaded with 255 gr cast semi-wadcutters that leave the barrel at a touch over 800 fps. A well constructed handload accurate and cheap to boot.


Cat

 

[Snowdog]

I would feel completely confident with a non-expanding round for the .45acp, but there are better choices than the standard 230gr FMJ, IMHO.

For example, a hard (22 BHN) 200gr round nose flat point over a stout charge of a favorite powder might offer some advantages over the old standby.
If I were to carry a .45acp with a barrel shorter than 4", I'd be tempted to use one of my favorite (hotter) target loads for carry. Nothing wrong with a Masterblaster polycoated 200gr RNFP over 5.5gr of Win 231, but hey, that's just me.

For what it's worth, the Golden Saber is designed to expand at low velocities, so I'd imagine the 230gr might still expand to some useful degree from shorter barrels.