A "Modern" Registered Magnum Question?

[Peter M. Eick]

I was thinking again recently and a few things came to mind. I noticed that S&W is bringing out blued steel revolvers again (the thunder ranch version) and they have sort of backed off the heritage idea a bit. So I was killing time on the plane (25 hours of flying gives you a lot of time to think). And I had this idea.



Who else would be interested in a "new" registration program for a truly factory custom revolver?



What I was thinking is could S&W "re-create" the registration program and make a new blued steel 27 with user selectable sights, trigger, hammer, barrel length etc.

Lets be realistic. This would probably be a $2000 (base case) to say $6000 revolver. I also realistically recognize this could take up to a year to build (just like the originals).

Here is my 1939 registered magnum and a 1935 heavy duty.

So, My goal is a modern duplicate of my Registered. This means I want to have S&W bring back the case hardened and grooved humpback hammer. The hand fitted trigger. Kings sights front and rear, a nice skinny barrel with a "PERFECT" polish job, not a partial polish, I want it to be like glass! Magna grips, like the original, but I would like the option to get targets and "coke" bottle grips also, but the grips must be serial numbered to the gun!

I want a "reg-####" stamped on the frame! Thats the whole point of this project isn't it?

I want to be able to pick the chambering and the barrel length to the 1/4". Maybe I want my next one to be a .22lr or a 38 special, although a 44 special does have an appeal to me. I want to pick the target distance and select either a 6 oclock or target centered hold.

I want a hold open latch on the crane just like the originals. I would not mind the OPTION of a crane lock like an original triple lock, but I realize this would not be "authentic". I want chambers that are polished, just just reamed. I want a knurled ejector head and an ejector that works smooth as glass (again like the originals).

I want the checkering on the top strap like the originals and I want all of the parts to be hand fitted and numbered to my gun as either the assembly number or the serial number.

I want the gun to be fitted and built with the best available parts and skill. I want this to be a truly work of the gun-makers arts. This gun should have the perfect selectable (within reason) trigger pull of say 2 lbs single action and say 9 lbs or even 10 lbs double action.

I don't want a bunch of garbage logo's on the gun, a small S&W stamp would be fine, 357 magnum on the barrel would be fine, the rest of the current gaudy stuff they put on the guns with a laser is out. The numbers and letters need to be stamped in the gun! We are looking for understanded elegance not gaudiness. This gun is for collectors who are customizing it, not as an advertisement on the range like say the "mountain gun" series with the logos and laser work.

Most of all, I want a registration certificate, made out to me with the distance targeted, who made it, the options selected, etc. Signed and delivered back to me ready for framing and mounting.



Any one else interested or can offer any insights????

 

[Archie]

Dream big, Pete.

I'd settle for a blue steel, pinned and recessed, firing pin on the hammer version. Nicely finished, inside and out.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Do you really think Smith & Wesson would produce Registered Magnum quality guns? For that matter, do you really think Smith & Wesson could produce Registered Magnum quality guns?

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Do I think they would? Not likely. To much staff for to little profit. Even though I am sure they could price it for a profit.


Do I think the could? That is a much harder question to answer from the outside. Maybe they have the skill in house, maybe not. Do I think they could get the skill? Yeah you could "organically" grow it internally but that would take vision, forethought and commitment.


Right now I am not sure that is available in "corporate america".

 

[Standing Wolf]

Maybe they have the skill in house, maybe not. Do I think they could get the skill?

Smith & Wesson would have to go out of house for polishing and bluing, and probably tuning, as well. I have no doubt there are plenty of firms that could do the work, though whether affordably is another matter.

 

[bfoster]

Peter,

I spent twenty years in the manufacturing end of this business.

I don't believe that this could be done in the $2000 range (base price).

Consider, its not just a matter of fitting and beautifully blued steel. The pre-war revolvers had the old style action, dimensional changes as well have been made over the years: the cylinder diameter is the easiest to measure, but there are many others.

Having a small group of craftsman make accurate reproductions of pre-war revolvers to the highest standards, one part at a time, with minimal specialized tooling would result in very costly revolvers indeed. I'm talking about prices that could approach those charged for Boss, Fabbri, or Purdey shotguns.

I suspect, but do not know, that for volume production long obsolete tooling, fixtures, and gauges would have to be recreated/replaced. Alone, this could be a project killer: it would require a significant sales volume to amortize the costs. Given the buzz that surfaces every few years about the folks in Hartford "looking at" reintroducing the New Service I'd be really surprised if S&W's marketing department hasn't carefully evaluated this idea, and given it the thumbs down because they don't think that volume will justify set up costs.

It's a shame, but I don't think you'll see a new version of the Registered Magnum any sooner than you'll see a new version of the New Service Target or Shooting Master.

Bob

 

[Majic]

Why taint history. Let the grand old Lady be and not try to cause any more confusion. We shouldn't just clone everything in this world. The Mystique of the Registered Magnums is the fact that there are a limited number of them.
Now there's nothing wrong with bringing the M27 back out for those who wants one, but there are plenty of fake certificates out that we don't need a remake to muddy waters any further.

 

[Randy63]

You can never go back.....

I'd much rather have a pre 27 tricked out by Hamilton Bowen with Fishpaw grips.

Michael Stern over on the S&W forum posted pics of a pre war 38/44 Outdoorsman worked over by Bowen. S&W couldn't come close to producing a gun like that. It's a piece of art.

No modern S&W could compare to this this revolver.

Bowen Outdoorsman Click Here

Randy

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I hear you guys. I was just sort of thinking about what could be done and how it could be made.

I guess the sense is that there is just not a market and enough demand to push for such an item.

Pity isn't it.

 

[DesertRat]

Peter,

Your concept is a good one (in theory); however, I agree with these guys that unfortunately the cost would be in excess of $2k, it’s hard to believe, but its true. I'm thinking it would be in excess of $3,500.00 and that is with the elimination of some of the features, such as the high polish for that perfect blue job.

Anyway, much like you, I've often thought that S&W needed to get back to the old ways of doing things, but that isn't likely to happen even on a limited basis. Additionally, many people, myself included are not interested in spending well over $1,000.00 on any one handgun (I've done it 3 times in the past).

So in order to satisfy my desire for a nice old S&W, I simply found an old model 28 that saw little use during the past 30 years and laid my hard earned money down on that. No, it’s not a registered magnum, but it’s a heck of a revolver at half the price of a new S&W .357.

I like your idea, but sadly, it will probably never happen. Additionally, I think Majic has a good point, why do we want to taint the mystique of the originals? Some things are better left alone.

BTW, nice registered magnum. I love those old diamond grips.

 

[BigG]

As far as BFoster says, it sounds like too many variables would put the guns out of reach. Why not simplify your request to Make a brite blued Model 27 357 MAGNUM and give it a registered serial number and nice wooden case. Maybe you could allow a user specified barrel length between 2 - 8 1/2" but I think too many options would make it unprofitable.

I personally think the craftsmanship exists to make as fine a finished piece as the best Colt or S&W ever produced. Doug Turnbull does it, so can others. YMMV

 

[HankB]

These days, many people would be inclined to avoid any guns that were "registered," form 4473's notwithstanding.

I'd like to see a blue .357 M27, pinned and recessed with the checkered top strap, forged and case hardened (not MIM) internals, the firing pin on the hammer, and a good polish and blue. It should have the durability improvements that S&W added to their M29s a while back. Considering that any number of good revolversmiths will do a good action job for well under $200, the factory should be able to do the same.

Basically, I'd like to see them bring back the gun they progressively cheapened during the last 30 years, but without the workmanship shortcuts of S&W's Bangor Punta days. Such a revolver would certainly be quite a bit more expensive than the stuff they're putting out now, but NOT to the tune of multiple thousands of dollars.

I'd buy one. (Unless some horse's backside of an S&W executive insisted that they put that stupid integral lock in. Then - forget it.)

 

[thatguy]

The problem is that such guns are mere shadows of their former incarnations. All new revolvers will have those stupid round butt configurations with rubber or awful wood stocks (I can't stnad those things on the Thunder Ranch commemorative), safety locks, warning labels, etc. They simply wouldn't be the same as the older guns and I have zero interest in them.

 

[carpettbaggerr]

Perhaps the Chinese or the Italians will oblige us. Like they have with reproduction Peacemakers, Winchester 1897's and the Norinco 1911's

Since US manufacturers are unable or unwilling to produce them.

 

[Magnum88C]

It would be nice, but then again, you're messing with the mystique like Majic said.

Maybe a "new" registered gun?

Others have said it, but say an N-framed .357, all forged parts, deep blue (gonna pay for the proper polish job). The guns could have a "registered" certificate, but not be registered to a specific person, just a certificate stating X-of-YYYY, etc, etc. Offer in 3-4-6 and 8 3/8", make it an order item, not a "stocking dealer" item. Some of the other options sound good, sight regulation for given distance, 6 or dead on hold, etc.

BUT, like they said for the TRS, the locks are here to stay, they are going to be on every gun because they are necessary for the gun to be certified for sale in certain socialist states, so they'll be on every gun. Of course mayeb they could pull a Ruger and put the lock UNDER the grips. . .

 

[Preacherman]

I think a better way would be to buy an old, beat-up gun and have it completely restored. It would cost the same, but you'd end up with the highest quality obtainable on the market. I'd send it to Hamilton Bowen for the mechanicals, and to Turnbull for the cosmetics. Turnbull's work is just awe-inspiring... I'll link a couple of pictures to show you what I mean.

(Unfortunately, I doubt that I'll ever be able to afford such a project... )

I'd better not post any more, or I'll be crying into my keyboard with unrequited desire...

 

[HankB]

BUT, like they said for the TRS, the locks are here to stay, they are going to be on every gun because they are necessary for the gun to be certified for sale in certain socialist states, so they'll be on every gun.

And the locks CAN cause problems . . . I've heard of integral locks malfunctioning, but usually third or fourth hand . . . the only case where I personally spoke to the person it happened to involved a Steyr pistol. However, in the latest (Jan/Feb '05) issue of American Handgunner, Ayoob writes of several instances where S&W's locks either locked unexpectedly or simply fell out of the gun. Admittedly, the reported incidents all happened with lightweight revolvers firing hot ammo, but still . . . aside from still not having completely forgiven S&W for their sellout, I simply will NOT buy a revolver with an integral lock, so they can keep selling them in California or where ever integral locks are genuinely required by law.

Oh, and in the same magazine, take a look at Clint Smith's column. In his eyes, anyone who DARES to criticize ANYTHING about his TRS revolver is, in his words, a "turd sucker." The tone of his column is very defensive, and he almost seems to regard any dissent as heresy. Either he was having a really bad day when he wrote the column, or he's starting to lose it.

 

[Majic]

I think Clint Smith just realized his Golden Egg hatched an ugly duckling. He put his name on it and now his feelings are hurt as a lot of people don't care for it and no one is making a secret of it.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I have been thinking all day how to respond to Clint's comments and frankly I just am not sure it is worth the effort.

Yep he is defensive, and yes it is his little baby but I think he forgets that lots of us DON'T think the mod 21 was the best of all possible revolvers and just maybe they (S&W) only made 1200 of them because DANG NEAR NO ONE ELSE (at the time) thought they were worth much either.



Lets get practical for just a second, If you look at the sales statistics, (and read demand) then you can make a reasonable arguement that four times more folks wanted a registered 357 magnum then a 44 special 4" fixed sighted revolver. You could say that about 20 times the 1200 number wanted the same gun as a 38 special (ie the 38/44 heavy duties). Heck even more folks wanted the 38/44 outdoorsman's then Clint's little baby away back 60 years ago.



If anyone is being a "xxxx sucker" as Clint calls them, it is he for not being able to take some reasonable concerns from interested observers.

 

[Magnum88C]

Oh, and in the same magazine, take a look at Clint Smith's column. In his eyes, anyone who DARES to criticize ANYTHING about his TRS revolver is, in his words, a "turd sucker." The tone of his column is very defensive, and he almost seems to regard any dissent as heresy. Either he was having a really bad day when he wrote the column, or he's starting to lose it.

Didn't read his column. I was picking up the latest copy of Backwoodsman and saw a strange sight. . . a BLUED REVOLVER? On the FRONT cover of a GUN RAG?

So I picked it up to look at the revolver porn, and ended up reading the words.

1.) I think Clint holds Skeeter Skelton in high esteem, and that was why he wanted a .44 Special. Me? I'd be a whole lot more interested in a blued 4" in .45 Colt, if you want a low-pressure round (the Colt also shoots rings around the .44 Special, heck the special is down around the power of the .45 Colt COWBOY loads).

2.) From what I've read from Clint in the past, he thinks adjustable sights are too fragile for combat use. Maybe, but I've never had a problem with them, and if you ever change your carry ammo, you'd want them.

3.) Locks. Locks suck. I understand why they put them in there, but until the residents of these socailist states hang their legislatures from the lampposts (or just fire them at the elections), the locks are here to stay.

4.) Know what really turned me off? What the deal breaker is for me? That d**med HUGE GOLD THUNDER RANCH BILLBOARD. Sorry, if I want a gaudy gun, I want it to be engraved to my specifications. This may be a fine gun, but that HUGE BILLBOARD screams "gimmick" to me. I might consider a Model 21, plain Jane, but not this. If they just put the TR logo on the grips, maybe a stamp on the barrel (NO GOLD) saying Thunder Ranch special, it'd be ok.

But feeling a desire for a .44 Caliber blued revolver I went out and bought. . .

A Ruger Redhawk, in .44 Magnum (wish they still made the blued ones in .45 Colt) for HALF the price of the TRS. That's a heck of a lot of reloadign components for the price difference, and I can load it to the firewall if I want. . .sigh.

 

[Magnum88C]

Lets get practical for just a second, If you look at the sales statistics, (and read demand) then you can make a reasonable arguement that four times more folks wanted a registered 357 magnum then a 44 special 4" fixed sighted revolver. You could say that about 20 times the 1200 number wanted the same gun as a 38 special (ie the 38/44 heavy duties). Heck even more folks wanted the 38/44 outdoorsman's then Clint's little baby away back 60 years ago.

Yeah, but the problem is, the advertising weenies think a turd with a famous name/school on it will sell better.

 

[tex_n_cal]

I'd go for another 5" barrel P&R, six shot M27, heck a M627 would work for me, as well.

 

[scottauld]

Back to the original question, yes, I'd be in for a new Registered program even if I had to sell a few things to get one. The program would not last long and therefore the gun would be worth a fortune by the time I'm old and gray. I mean older. and Grayer.

Scott