A question about rifled barrels, buckshot and home defense.

[SouthronBoy]

Everything I don't know about shotguns would fill several books. Everything I do know about shotguns, I learned on the internet.

I am ignorant. Much of what I know is incorrect.

I've read, here on THR and on other sites, that shooting buckshot (or any shot for that matter) out of a rifled barrel is a bad idea because the barrel's rifling will cause the buckshot to spread out into a donut shaped pattern, thereby missing your POA.

How am I doing so far?

I've also read that buckshot will only spread a couple of inches, if that, in normal HD distances.

Am I right?

If both of these statements are true, wouldn't buckshot through a rifled barrel be great for HD since you get the shot spread that the uninitiated (like me) expect from a short-barrelled shotgun? Wouldn't a center mass shot, buckshot through a rifled barrel, be more likely to hit a major organ and stop a zombie than shooting buckshot through a straight or choked tube?

I'm curious to see your responses. If my ignorance is showing, that's okay, that's why I come to sites like THR, to learn stuff.

Thanks.

 

[sparkyguy]

I don't have a rifled barrel, so I can't answer that question. I do, however, have a smooth bore shotgun that I shot 00buck out of this past weekend. I had been wondering myself what kind of pattern I would get out of an 18" barrel that I have on my Remington 870 and the results were a bit alarming.
First shot was at 50yrds. I hit the target with about 3 or 4 pellets the holes the size of a 38spl spread from top to bottom. I then moved up to 25yrds. I would say maybe 6 hit the paper, again..very random in spread. Then I moved to 12yrds, the maximum distance open in my house. The pattern was about 6" round. Thesis? At close quarters, hamburger comes to mind.
I then loaded some rifled slugs to test. OMG. At 50yrds I hit the upper left corner with a hole I could get my thumb into. Next 4 shots were from 25yrds and they all landed in a 4 inch group middle-left. This ammo would show light out the back of whatever it hit. I will stick with the 00buck in my 870 next to my bed at night, though.

 

[nelson133]

In my experience, a Winchester 1300 with the rifled barrel will spread buckshot very quickly. The patterns at 30 feet are ragged, but I would say that it would be inferior for self defense. The idea of buckshot for self defense is multiple hits in vulnerable areas for the quick ending of threats, one or three pellets in non vital areas won't necessarily do it. I have a Maverick 88 with the 18&1/2" smooth bore barrel and it will give nice patterns at center of mass at 30 feet with buckshot. That's my choice for home defense. Now if you were to load that rifled shotgun with slugs, that would be a totally different story.

 

[SouthronBoy]

The maximum practical range in my house is about 15 feet.

 

[foghornl]

Maximum unobstructed range inside Foggy's Chicken Coop is 24 feet..If I am standing in the garage with the muzzle poked through the living room wall, and Bad Guy is standing in the far corner of the kitchen.

Rifled barrels will perform all sorts of bad things to shot patterns. If the shot column is protected by a wad stack with the plastic sleeve that covers the shot, the rifling will spin that shot column....instant doughnut pattern. If the shot column doesn't have that plastic sleeve, the shot gets badly deformed by the rifling, and the rifling gets very heavily leaded.

I have proven these theories to myself, and a Shooting Budd that thought that the rifling spin would stabilize the shot like a rifle/pistol bullet.

 

[Tamren]

While we're on this topic, what is the difference between a slug barrel or a shot barrel? Or is there such a thing? I picked up a Mossberg 590 SP yesterday, and both my brother and one of his friends thought it would be unsafe to put slugs through it. I thought that as long as there wasn't a choke, slugs are fine....

 

[foghornl]

"Rifled" Slugs (AKA Foster..or is it Forster??) are generally speaking better performers in looser chokes, Cylinder bore or Improved Cylinder. Some modified choke barrels perform well with slugs, some do not. Full choke on rifled slugs only gets you more felt recoil, with little to no accuracy improvement.

Mossberg does not recommend slugs in their 835/935 series with the 'over-bored' barrels, but slugs are fine in the 500's/590's

 

[Titan6]

Pellets out of rifled barrel = bad

Slugs out of rifled barrel = good

It is that simple.

 

[Tamren]

What about slugs out of a smooth barrel? Just a little less accurate?

 

[foghornl]

'Sabot' Slugs from a rifled barrel or rifled choke tube work very well..some folks can get very good accuracy out to 150 Yds or so.

Since I currently do not have a rifled barrel or rifled choke tube, the plain lead Forster slug works the best for me. I can consistanly hit a 9" paper plate at 60 Yds. with this.

To expand on Titan6's post:

Pellets or plain lead slugs from rifled barrel/rifled choke tube..poor

Sabot slugs from a rifled barrel/rifled choke..very good.

Plain lead slugs from a smooth barrel..good to very good.

 

[Titan6]

Pellets or plain lead slugs from rifled barrel/rifled choke tube..poor

Well, the reason I kept it simple is plain lead slugs do great out of my rifled barrel that I bought last year. I even switched to it permanently over buck shot for HD. Accurate to 100 meters within 4" or so. Can't beat that with the size of the hole it makes.

As always YMMV

 

[SouthronBoy]

Has anybody here ever shot buckshot out of a rifled barrel at a target 12-15' away?

How was the spread? How was the pattern?

 

[SouthronBoy]

bump

things got a little off topic, does anybody know the answer to my question?

 

[Fred Fuller]

Even rifled shotgun barrels are a law unto themselves when it comes to shooting shot loads. As far as I can tell, the main reason you haven't gotten a satisfactory answer from anyone so far is simply that only you can give yourself the answer you seek. You can do that by measuring the longest possible shot inside your house, adding a yard for good measure, and then patterning your shotgun on paper at that range with the shot load(s) of your choice.

Then you will know what your barrel will do with shot at that range. What anyone else's barrel will do is pretty much irrelevant to your situation, all any informed person can do when discussing shotgun barrel performance is to speak in generalities. In general, rifled shotgun barrels throw rapidly opening patterns in the shape of a donut. You might own the barrel that proves the exception to the rule, the only way to know is to pattern it.

BTW, I'd tell you the same thing if you were asking about a smoothbore barrel.

IMHO smoothbore 18- 23" shotgun barrels for common makes/models are plentiful enough and inexpensive enough that it would be worth investing in one for HD duties, and saving your rifled barrel for launching the sabot slugs it was designed for. Of course, YMMV. If you want open patterns with a clear space in the center, you'll likely get them. Personally I'd prefer to keep my whole buckshot pattern where that open space is likely to be.

Unlike some folks here I am a firm believer in tight patterns out of a defensive shotgun- I might have to thread that pattern through a tight space where stray pellets could cause a disaster. I DON'T CARE if my shotgun shoots "like a rifle-" that's what I want it to do. If I need a scattergun I'll load the thing with S&B buckshot and not worry. That doesn't mean I'm telling you that you have to want tight patterns too, please understand. It's your choice how your shotgun performs, with the variety of barrels, choke tubes, forcing cone and other internal barrel geometry adjustments and the variety of different loads available today, anyone can get almost anything they want out of a shotgun, within the inflexible limitations of physics.

I shoot a 12 gauge shotgun for defensive work because there's nothing bigger or more powerful that I can conveniently carry and fire from the shoulder to handle short range (inside 100 yards) problems, not because I want to liberally sprinkle my surroundings with lead. I shoot buckshot because at closer ranges it is more likely to 'switch off' a goblin due to simultaneous multiple projectile impacts. If I need more range, or penetration through intervening obstacles, there are Brenneke slugs in the Sidesaddle for that. They perform quite well out of a smoothbore barrel too.

It isn't for me to tell you how to make defensive choices for your house and your family. As Louis Awerbuck says, I won't be at your gunfight- you'll be on your own with your choices and your skillset. All I can do is tell you what I would do, and I don't have a rifled barrel on any shotgun here that's set up for HD.

Stay safe,

lpl/nc

 

[SouthronBoy]

Thanks Lee.