AA#5, 115 gr, 9x19mm work up

[Clark]

MODERATOR INSERT:
CAUTION! The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

See Moderator Response at bottom of this thread.
Johnny Guest
H&R Moderator


AA#5 9x19mm cart Overall length = 1.169", Win 115 gr JHP=.541",RP primed brass, Kel-Tec P11
Pressure and velocity calculated by Quickload program

0) Minimum charge to cycle pistol........ 5.0 gr 800 fps 12,000 psi
1) 9x19mm.................................7.7 gr 1260 fps 34,000psi
2) 9x19mm +P............................. 8.0 gr 1324 fps 37,400psi
3) 9x19mm +P+............................ 8.3 gr 1353 fps 40,800psi
4) .356TSW............................... 9.1 gr 1455 fps 49,000psi
5) Primer pierce, case bulge ............10.0 gr 1600 fps 65,000psi
6) Case failure[hole] threshold [kaboom].10.7 gr 1700 fps 81,000 psi
7) Case head separation [big kaboom].....11.5 gr wrecks extractor and hold open

Here is a picture of 5), 6), and 7)

 

[HSMITH]

I hope someone is paying you to do this, and that it is safely done in a lab........

 

[Cal4D4]

Wow, a 65Kpsi pistol load!

 

[Clark]

If the primer blows out at 10 and the gun jams at 5, the most reliable load for carry is 7.5 gr.

 

[stans]

Dangerous stuff!!! I am just not that brave.

 

[Clark]

When the case head goes, a mixture of brass, powder, and primer parts can come back throug the ejector slot in the slide and hit the shooter in the face. That bloody spectacle is called "Major face". The blown head can also blow the extractor out the right side of the gun at lethal velocities, and blow the bottom of the magazine off with the follower and ammo following.

So if you see a dead shooter and to his left is a shooter with blood on his face and he is scrounging up his magazine parts and ammo off the ground, maybe a case head blew off.

 

[griz]

I find this stuff interesting, but wonder why you keep loading hotter when you already have a hole in the side of the case? Even if it's not your gun I just don't see the point.

 

[Clark]

It was the my first overload

I wanted to find out what would happen.

Once I found out that the case head blowing off would blow of the extractor, hold open, and magazine floor plate, I didn't feel that want to ever do that again.

Since then, I have worked up overloads with HS-6, Power Pistol, 3N37, Bullseye, Unique, Blue Dot, 2400, 800X, AA#9, H110, and LIL'GUN with 115 gr, 124 gr, and 147 gr in 9mm.
And I have overloaded 25acp, 32acp, 380, 9x23mm, 7.62x25mm, 357 SIG, 40 S&W, 10mm, and 45acp, but still never felt curiosity to go passed the case bulge, primer pierce, or expanded primer pocket.

 

[griz]

I believe I had this conversation with you before and I said I can see the point in finding where the edge really is by stepping just past it. That said I sure hope you are doing this with a long string tied to the trigger.

By the way, at normal "max" loads, or maybe +P, which of those powders gave the most velocity.

Thanks, griz

 

[Clark]

Of the ones I tried to take to the limit; HS-6, Power Pistol, 3N37, Bullseye, Unique, Blue Dot, 2400, 800X, AA#9, H110, and LIL'GUN:

The best powder for velocity with 124 gr is Power Pistol, but it has lots of flash.

The best powder for velocity with 147 gr is 3N37, and it has little flash.

The standout powders were Power Pistol, 3N37, HS-6, and AA#5 for packing allot of power in the tiny 9x19 case.

With an OAL of 1.169", that is what I found, but with just a little longer case, the 9x23mm which at 1.3" I found LONGSHOT the best. With a longer still case, the 357 mag, at 1.59", I found LIL'GUN the best.

 

[Longbow]

Sorry to revive this thread but...

.... do you have a near kB load with Titegroup using 124 gr 9mm? Thanks!

 

[Johnny Guest]

CLARIFICATION - - -

All:
This thread escaped my notice when it was first opened, or I would have modified or removed it at the time. Since the inception of the “Float†codifying H&R standards about overload data, things have been running pretty smoothly.

In the interests of archival information, I will leave this thread in place, with the added CAUTION note at the top. At the same time, I am locking the thread. Please read the float “REQUIRED READ†at the top of Handloading & Reloading Forum for requirements, policy and mission statement.

Best,
Johnny Guest
H&R Moderator

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Clark,

I am always curious how you measure pressures?

What tools do you use and how do you like them???


Finally, I always enjoy your posts. They are very enlightening (but I am not going to follow in your shoes).

 

[Clark]

Longbow,
I have never worked with tightgroup.
In 9mm I have used Bullseye, Unique, AA#5, Power Pistol, HS-6, Blue Dot, 2400, 3N37, 800-X, Long Shot, AA#9, N110, H110, W296, &LIL'GUN.
I like Power Pistol the best.


I thought I always put the warning at the top, maybe I forgot or thought I was adding to a post with the header.


The 9mm pressure was from AA, the rest is an estimate from my Quickload program.

That was my first overload work up 5 years ago when I started handloading.

I have done thousands since with three dozen calibers, but I avoid that case head failure in a hand held pistol since then. When that case head separated, parts left the gun at lethal speeds. I don't do that at home any more.

 

[Nero Steptoe]

I don't believe anybody with an I.Q. above 80 or the judgment of a mature 14-yr-old would find anything interesting about these "tests". There is obviously no real-world application for this silliness.

Please note that Clark has no pressure-testing equipment, but is relying on a computer program for his "estimates".

I find his "experiments" nonsensical and his publishing such crap to be dangerous and irresponsible.

 

[Clark]

Nero,
No one ever went broke underestimating the public's taste.
That is why I am writing a load book.
http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&[email protected]

 

[Longbow]

Clark,
Thanks for responding, I'm loading 4.8 gr right now, there are no obvious signs of severe high pressures as of yet (case bulge, primer cratering..) on my ramped barrel 1911. I made the inquiry just to be sure it won't kb on my Glock 17 (less case support?). Thanks again!