About to buy some ammo (.223)

[BEELZEBOB]

And I am on the fence,

Between Federal Xm193 @ $299 for 840rds

VS

Federal American Eagle .223 @ $299 for 1000rds.

w/ only a 100fps difference, is there any other reasons that the gurus prefer XM193 over the latter?

(DISCLAIMER: dont want wolf bear or tula, XM855 wont due do to range restriction on bi-metal rounds)

Discuss.

 

[Psa1m144]

Not sure.... I always use Federal AE, that way I can shoot more.

 

[Strykervet]

XM193 is a military designation for 55gr. 5.56mm ammo. It comes in 840 round lots because that is how many rounds fit on stripper clips in an ammo can.

I can't attest to the reliability or accuracy. It is a lower tier ammo, although I have used it some and I haven't had much problems with what I've uses. Most M193 and M855 I've fired were military with NATO or WCC headstamps.

The American Eagle is kind of junk. Sure you get some more, but so what. I guess if you just want some close range plinking, go ahead. I don't hear much good about AE, other than it is a little better than the Russian garbage.

What I do is load and reload. I get 1000 rounds of virgin primed NATO military brass for $137 and I get new SS109 projectiles (not pulled) for $85 per 1000. So all I have to do is add powder and I get new M855 loads, but more accurate. I can also load Mk262 also. All for much less than what it sells for, and I get much better ammo.

Because I load, I can afford to shoot more, and I can shoot stuff like the Grendel, Beowulf, Blackout, etc., and not break the bank.

But if you are looking for good loaded ammo already, try and find the stuff with NATO headstamps. Look at gunshows maybe. The XM193 is good plinking stuff, the M855 is better in my opinion, particularly if you have a slightly faster to fast twist rate.

 

[hja4941]

The XM193 is a NATO 5.56 load and could lead to over pressure problems if your shooting in a .223 chamber. However if it is loaded on the stripper clips it is much more convenient to use on high volume range days.

 

[JustinJ]

From your post it appears this is just range ammo? Unless you plan on using the ammo for accuracy competitions or actual combat what difference does it make? Get the best deal and enjoy shooting. As stated above avoid 5.56 if your rifle is chambered for .223.

 

[firemanstrickland]

you gotta feed your rifle what it wants. my ar is fed a steady healthy diet of xm193f

 

[firemanstrickland]

and psalm there both federal ammo

 

[Orlando]

My last two purchases this year was XM193 1000rds for $300.00
Its out there just gotta look

 

[straitnate14]

if you don't mind pmc aim has it for cheap, I like pmc brass and the pmc I have shot seemed to be fine.

55gr http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=APMC223FMJ55&name=PMC+.223+55grn+FMJ+20rd+box&groupid=21

62gr http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.a....56x45+(.223)+62grn+SS109+20rd+Box&groupid=21

 

[OhioChief]

Strykervet, where are you getting "new SS109 projectiles (not pulled) for $85 per 1000."

Thanks

 

[wnycollector]

I'm voting neither. Widners has IMI M193 for $318/1200 rounds. Here is the link http://wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=9017&dir=18|830|845

Here is a GREAT post by Molon http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/511804_.html It compares all of the M193 clones out on the market.

 

[saddlerocker]

IMI at Wideners is better than either, and cheaper

Use www.ammoseek.com to search for online ammo

 

[CJS06]

Check out www.freedomammunition.com

Steve is great and the quality is second to none. His pricing is great as well. Last order I got was $325 shipped. This was Lake City Brass w/ 55gr. He is always working to improve his product.

 

[silent_killer]

Natchez has great ammo deals, and I think it ends tonight??? Check out their prices...

www.natchezss.com

I like this buy:
http://www.natchezss.com/product.cf...utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=09132011Federal

 

[BEELZEBOB]

Ah man, you guys freggin rule!!!

I am cashing a vacation week in so my special lady cant complain!

So you just really helped me get the most out of it here.

 

[Orlando]

If you are in no hurry and want XM193 this is where I got mine. 1000rds XM193 for $300.00 delivered, in one auction I got it for $290.00 delivered

http://gunauction.com/
Look for a seller by the name of Sportsmanssupply

 

[BEELZEBOB]

So I was wondering if anyone in the past 18months or so (most recent batches) has had any or a lot of FTF or primer issues w/ the Federal BK?

I started a thread on AR15 about buying in bulk, I asked about 5 or different rounds, and was told to get the M193.

Then the thread was locked because people kept post non tech stuff.

So I was all freggin ready to buy 2k rounds, and then a review thread there makes the ammo sound like ****? 6-10FTF every 100 rounds, bad primers etc

So like, stay away from Federal Xm193? or is it fine no worries at all?

$600 is a hard tooth to pull for me here, so i would be irate if I had 6-12 FTF every 500round range day.

 

[Orlando]

I never had any problems with XM193

 

[bigedp51]

hja4941

The XM193 is a NATO 5.56 load and could lead to over pressure problems if your shooting in a .223 chamber.

hja4941

I have a new Stevens 200 HB with a 1 in 9 twist and it is long throated and can safely fire either .223 or 5.56 NATO ammunition. Below is the major difference between the older .223 rifles and the newer M16/A4 and its ammunition and resulting longer throat.



The chamber pressures are the same for all practical purposes with both cartridges, the only problem is when the newer M855 ammunition is fired in a .223 with 1 in 14 twist and its shorter throat that was designed for "lighter" bullets. The longer and heavier M855 bullet will cause a pressure spike in the short throated .223. The shorter throat builds up peak pressure sooner and maximum chamber pressure spikes instead of building up pressure more slowly and more uniformly. (it gets kicked in the a$$ harder than normal)

"According to the official NATO proofing guidelines the 5.56×45mm NATO case can handle up to 430 MPa (62,000 psi) piezo service pressure. In NATO regulated organizations every rifle cartridge combo has to be proofed at 125% of this maximum pressure to certify for service issue. This is equal to the C.I.P. maximum pressure guideline for the .223 Remington cartridge, that is the 5.56×45mm NATO parent cartridge."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56×45mm_NATO

The European CIP is the counter part of the American SAAMI and CIP considers the .223 and 5.56 NATO to be the same cartridge and the same chamber pressure.

During the Viet Nam war the M16 and the .223 were one in the same cartridge, the civilian firearms industry is now catching up to the newer military ammunition standards "BUT" you can still buy .223 rifles with short throats and the 1 in 14 twist and this is why the SAAMI has the interchangeability of ammunition warnings.

Barrel Twist Rate 1:14″ 1:12″ 1:9″ 1:8″ 1:7″ or 1:6.5″
Max Bullet Weight 55gr..65gr..73gr..80gr.......90gr

 

[Austin97]

Buy the Federal American Eagle ones.

 

[Aiko492]

At some point, give the PMC XTAC 62 gr a try, @ or < than $300 per 1,000. Nice shooting round, all brass.

 

[lmccrock]

At some point, give the PMC XTAC 62 gr a try, @ or < than $300 per 1,000. Nice shooting round, all brass.

Unfortunately, the OP cannot choose this because it has the hardened core bullets not allowed on his range.

XM193 today is not the XM193 of years past. There are enough reports of primers falling out that I would not buy any. But if the price was good and I was just shooting at the range and do not mind fishing a loose primer out of my lower, then today's XM193 is ok. Palmetto's $149.50/500 is not bad. Hmmm...looks like 25 boxes of 20 is cheaper than a case of 500.

IMI M193 or PMC's XP193 are also good choices.

 

[gotigers]

for plinking, paper killing and some close distance 3 gun i use any 55gr at 3150FPS +/- 100fps out to 300 yards. That will keep me close to my 50/200 yard zero and balllistics charts.

I typically like xm193, but i have used the AE223, Fiocchi canned heat and a couple of others with good results in 3 gun. Most targes are within 35 yards with a dozen or so 100-300 yard shots.

for precision shooting, i like Black Hills 68gr BTHP and 55gr Federal Tactical TRU soft points (my best groups).

edit: Out of the thousands of rounds of xm193 i have shot in the last 2 years, i have not had any failures.

Palmetto state armory and Aim surplus is where i buy most of my ammo.

 

[tahunua001]

the american eagle and federal are the same stuff, they are both lake city XM193 that is thrown in different boxes, one has probably just been stripper clipped and the other hasnt. they are both going to act the same. I would go with the american eagle and save a few cents. either way, all that money goes back into the american economy and pays the wages of an american factory worker. in this case the two companies are owned by the same corperation so either way you are even helping the same workers keep their jobs.

I dont get wolf tula and bear ammo for just that reason. well that and a lot of that cheap russian junk is starting to kaboom

 

[tahunua001]

furthermore,

XM193 is a military designation for 55gr. 5.56mm ammo.

the military does not list XM193 ammo and neither does NATO. the M193 is the united states proprietary load for their weapons that will work i other NATO countries rifles designed for the SS109 round.

the XM193 is a round that was built to the same specs as m193 but was never intended for military service and never went through acceptance trials. ever since I got a 5.56 rifle I have heard about a dozen theories about what XM193 is and how it makes it's way into civilian markets. some people claim it that it's faulty ammo that the armed forces didn't want so ATK just sells it to civilians, some people say that it's surplus, some say it's USG contract bleed over, all of these groups are completely wrong. bill clinton made it illegal to sell both surplus and ammo intended for military use to civilians. I actually wrote federal asking about the manufacturing and distribution process of XM193 and XM855 and this post is a paraphrased version of their response.