About to Embark on Nagant 7.62X38R.

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Thanks again for information.

I shot the pistol again today. It works well without filling the one hole that doesn't clear. I had thought it due to forcing cone, front of cylinder clearance, but it was always back toward the firing pin on the pawls, ratchet and face plate that pushes the cylinder forward for the gas seal.

As Twmaster from Dallas showed above, I've made some with more of the bullet protruding like a standard revolver load. Although I have not shot these yet, I am fairly proud of them.

Hopefully I can get a photo up... Brass colored case is 1978 surplus Russian round in middle for comparison. I swaged these bullets as well to .311, and 800X at 3.1 grains. It does not always burn it well depending on aspect inside case.

I did order some Fiocchi for boxer primed full length cases as recommended above by others, don't know what I will do with them when they arrive. Will probably shoot a few to see how they do in comparison.
 

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Also wonder about shellholder for real 7.62X38R.

Shellholders for .223 and 9mm are close, some use those for homemade brass. I also consider it likely a small thin washer over the cases would make the 7.62X38 fit the 32-20 shellholder. As they are the rims are minuscule and one of worst traits of the round.
 
Any of you guys been able to do anything about the 50# trigger pull on these revolvers yet? The tiny handle, combined with the horrific trigger pull, make it difficult for me to enjoy the experience of shooting this revolver.

I think I'll get the C&H Tool and Die dies for this cartridge, and report back what I learn.
 
Yup, there's a way to reduce the trigger pull. You have to install a small spacer, or nut, in the mainspring. Try going here: http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=56731

If not, google nagant revolver trigger job. This is actually in the original armourer's manual that the Ruskies had. It does work, but don't get the nut too big or you'll have issues with the cylinder advancing.
 
Stubbicatt is right about DA pull.

The revolvers are doing quite a bit with that trigger pull in double action. The cylinder is lined up and brought forward against a spring. The faceplace pushes forward, and all the things that other revolvers do are also accomplished. I have not been able to shoot mine well in DA. I think for true target work a more expensive model might be a lot better.

You can take the spring out of the middle of the cylinder and clean that area. There could be something hanging up there that would make you specimen even heavier of DA pull. Just turn that indenting piece on front of cylinder until the marks line up in the front and it comes apart. Most will have cosmoline in there (and everywhere). Something lighter for metal protection might make a difference.

In the older videos the people shooting these look more like Alexander Hamilton at a duel. All one hand holds and extended arms etc. The short handle with that specific geometry is harbinger from that era. The pistols don't rock and roll enough to need a very ergonomic handle though. I suppose the grip could have alterations made and extended.

Except for mine having leftist leanings I am surprised at how well it shoots considering age etc.
 
This got me looking, and the Ruskies used a bullet that was flattened out while retaining the rounded edges, for this purpose.
 
IF you want to modify your Nagant for 32-20 brass, I found it easiest to just buy another recoil plate:

https://www.buymilsurp.com/recoil-plate-m1895-russian-nagant-revolver-p-512.html

And file down the face a few thousandths to allow for the thicker rims of the brass. My digital reloading calipers measured the difference in rim thickness between surplus ammo and 32-20 brass and I adjusted the new spare recoil plate by that much and a hair more. I saved the OEM part for 'historical value-lol

The modified plate does not affect using surplus or new manufacture (like PRVI) Nagant 7.62x34R ammo.

FWIW I use a load of Win231/HP-38, a Berry plated .312 bullet and an OAL of 1.5".

As to the DA pull.....it is a real charcter builder - LOL - you won't see this beast in any of Miculek's speed shooting videos.
 
RandyP said:
IF you want to modify your Nagant for 32-20 brass, I found it easiest to just buy another recoil plate:

https://www.buymilsurp.com/recoil-plate-m1895-russian-nagant-revolver-p-512.html

And file down the face a few thousandths to allow for the thicker rims of the brass. My digital reloading calipers measured the difference in rim thickness between surplus ammo and 32-20 brass and I adjusted the new spare recoil plate by that much and a hair more. I saved the OEM part for 'historical value-lol

The modified plate does not affect using surplus or new manufacture (like PRVI) Nagant 7.62x34R ammo.

FWIW I use a load of Win231/HP-38, a Berry plated .312 bullet and an OAL of 1.5".

As to the DA pull.....it is a real charcter builder - LOL - you won't see this beast in any of Miculek's speed shooting videos.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I did. The replacement part was cheap enough so I did not have to worry about screwing it up.
 
I joined two Mosin collector forums for my 91/30 rifle and my Nagant pistol -great info resources but they can get kinda 'snarky' when it comes to modifying these firearms.

I am in the group that believes that if they held some great 'historic' significance they wouldn't be so low cost and readily available. I say it's my gun, I paid for it, and I'll do whatever I want to it. Neither my rifle nor pistol are 'rare' versions, just standard Russian military refurbs.
 
On my Nagant, I've found that Starline 32/20 brass has a slightly thinner rim than R-P brass ... and works just fine without having to mess with it.



I use both Starline 32/20 and Fiocchi 7.62 Nagant for reloading ... of course with different die sets.
 
Today tried PPU real 7.62X38R brass.

I used same dies from Lee, really a cross set for 32-20. Shellholder used a 9mm, as the 32-20 shellholder has way too much slop, 9mm an improvement. De-primed with Lee Universal, as it might not line up perfect and would be a pressure on the original resizer for 32-20, rod might not line up as well and break.

Tried re-sized brass in cylinder, they fit in and cycled.

Primed with Lee handheld tool and again 9mm shellholder. This worked well enough, so far so good.

Three grains 800X after belling case mouth. Did not try cases after belling operation, this was mistake.

Loaded one bullet, a 95 grain semi-wad cutter. It seemed tight and shaved some lead seating with more than normal force necessary. Learned it would not go in cylinder, because bell out was too much at end of cartridge. Brass PPU cases are much thicker than the 32-20 cases I've been using. Cartridges are visibly swelled at the ends. A better centered shellholder might make things slightly better but do not know if they would work even then.

Any comments or suggestions on how to do this right? I suppose best choice is deeper seating and a crimp of the end of cartridge. Most people seem to be using .30 carbine dies to do this. This would increase pressure compared to loads I've been making. The thicker brass has to increase sheer torsion as the bullet starts.

Fairly comfortable now with the 32-20 brass, 3 grains 800X, WSP primer, and either 95 or 98 grain bullets swaged to .311. This is not a load from any manual and not a product of The High Road, any institution, and your results may vary. It is not weaker than surplus or PPU loads by my estimation, shoots to similar area of paper.
 
Here is another old THR thread on reloading this round. I found it by googling, and it reminded me that I haven't signed in here for too long;

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-226290.html

It was suggested that turning the neck sizing insert from the Lee dies upside down would sort of crimp the case. It was also suggested using a .221 fireball die to crimp. Well. I tried the upside down trick but the funnel end of the insert was too rough, 'though it did sort-of crimp the case mouth. I then dug out an RCBS .222 sizing die, removed the depriming punch, and crimped with that. It went much easier and made a neat roll crimp. It works, at least in single action mode.

I use PPU cases I got from tradeexcanada.com. (Cases don't travel well across the great undefended border!) I load .30-100 LEE cast bullets. After seating the bullet as far as the die sets it, I use a LEE universal case flaring die with the small pointy cone to push the bullet just below the case mouth, then finally put just enough of a roll crimp with the .222 die.

I see a lot of powder suggestions but I am going to try a few rounds of 4.0 gr. HERCO
 
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I have been doing alot of reloading for my M95 Nagant. My barrel slugs out at .312. I have been loading Home cast Lee 90gr SWC sized .314. I load Starline 32-20, 7.62x38R as well as 32acp brass (I have a 32acpcylinder). I use Lee M95 Nagant die set I just remove the decapping rod for sizing 7.62x38R brass I sizes them no problem. I use a Lee#21 shell holder for Nagant brass. To seat the bullets I seat them as far as i can with the screw in the seater as per Lee's instructions and finish seating the bullet below the case mouth using a sizing stim from a Lee .309 bullet sizing kit or I guess you could just a longer screw. I use the sizing die without the decapping rod to crimp the finished case. My gas seal ammo is work in progress my starting loads using 2.7gr unquie and 1.7gr of Bullseye both have out performed Flocchi gas seal ammo.

With 32-20 brass using 3.5 Trail Boss worked best Best for when seating the bullets just far enough for the gun to work. When I used other pistol powders my loads warn't consistent and had a lot of unburnt powder. Using a starting load 1.7 of bullseye I seated the bullets in the 32-20 cases like the gas seal ammo below the case mouth it worked really well. Seating the bullets below the case mouth using 32acp starting loads and working up from there is the way to go.

I used the Same 1.7 gr bullseye load for the 32acp cases. Both non gas seal loads out performd the gas seal loads and had plenty of Room to work up.
 
Lot of unburnt powder in 3 grains 800X as well.

Also, the #21 Lee shel lholder does seem to be best for original PPU 7.62X38R brass as I've read somewhere else. I have not found one yet, suppose I would have to order it. It is unlikely to be on a shelf somewhere.

I will keep using the 3 grain 800X load as it seems consistent and the unburnt powder is just a cleaning annoyance. I am sure it varies depending on case aspect, how much doesn't burn.
 
I don't have much unburned powder in Nagant gas seal cases but when i used Unique and Bullseye powder in 32-20 cases with out seating the bullets deep in the cases i had a lot of unburned powder. The reason i like Bullseye powder is it is not position sensitive. I load cast bullets in 54r and x39 cases using 700x, unique, Red Dot, Herco, Bullseye and 2400 with Bullseye and 2400 being my favorites. If 800x is shooting well for you if i was you i agree i would stick with it. This week i am going to bump up my Bullseye charges and i am going to try 70% Trail Boss charge and see what happens.
 
I bought a #21 6.8 SPC Lee shell holder for my auto prime it works perfect. I had a #19 9mm shell holder for my press i just opened it up a little with my dremel tool. Graff's has the Lee #21 shellholder for 3.59. http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/8339
Are you using Lee M95 Nagant dies? If you are try removing the decapping rod from your sizing die and size without it it might help. A lot of guys that use .308 bullets size their brass with a M1 Carbine sizing die. I have a Lee M1 Carbine FCD it makes a nice crimp with 32-20 brass. I was all so thinking about trying Mag primers. Graff's sells .308 Nagant bullets 12.00 a hundred.
 
I shoot a 6.8 so I do have the #21 holder now. The reloading thread I started last summer specifies me using that holder.

I never leave the decapping pin in any of my pistol dies. I decap all cases on a press I have set up with a universal decapping die. This way even the primer pockets get cleaned out.

I am using the Lee Nagant dies. I've had great luck with cast bullets in the Nagant and my .32-20 revolver so I'm just going to continue getting them sized to 312 and load away. I've almost always had issues with 308 pills just sliding into the case. No neck tension. combine that with a 312 bore and I'm just not into 308s. Which sucks because I have like 300 new Hornady 110 grain 30 carbine boolits on hand...
 
I read your Nagant reloading how-to nice write up. I like your 22LR case trick. I have been using a sizing stem out of a Lee .309 sizing it fits the seating die like it was made for it. The lands on my Nagant are .301 that should be enough to stabilize a .308 jacketed bullet. I have heard that pulled bullets from 7.62x25 shoot well in the Nagant. Anyway i have some and would like to try them. I want to buy a 30 carbine Lee loader and mod it for a on the go loading setup as well as being able to try .308 bullets.

Has anyone used M dies i have read they are great for expanding case necks for cast bullets. They make one in 30 carbine that just might be the ticket X38R brass. Getting .314 bullets in X38R cases is not a easy job. Right now i have been opening X38R, X54R and X39 cases using some cheap harbor Fright punches http://www.harborfreight.com/8-piece-punch-set-93424.html
I start by pushing the end of the punch that you hit with a hammer into the case mouth by hand. I use the 1/8 punch for this. Then i use the 1/4 punch to flair the case it does a nice tapered flair. lastly i open the case a little more with my Lee universal flaring die. I only need the flaring for X38R cases. Does anyone have a special way they open up X38R case mouths.
 
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