AD/ND in temple?

[.cheese.]

I heard about this article/blog from a family member who was obviously anti-gun at Rosh Hashanah dinner tonight.

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2007/09/dont_shoot_its_rosh_hashanah.php

Don't Shoot! It's Rosh Hashanah!
Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 09:42:30 PM

This is why I don't go to High Holy Days services: **** is dangerous.

About an hour ago I talked to an old friend, whose mother had gone to Temple Emanu-El on Hillcrest Road and Northwest Highway for Rosh Hashanah services tonight. And my friend told me one hell of a story that I have since confirmed with Chief David Kunkle and one of his assistants.

An 81-year-old retired Dallas County Sheriff's Department officer who has a valid right-to-carry permit brought a .380 pistol to temple tonight -- why, beats me. At around 7 p.m. the man, who worked for the Sheriff's Department for 25 years, accidentally dropped the gun when he stood for a prayer, it fell to the floor and discharged, and a single round hit the man's 42-year-old daughter in the foot. The ambulance was called, naturally; doubtful EMS carries anything for the schpilkes. A couple in their early 70s were grazed by some from shrapnel, according to the chief. But they got a Band-Aid and were sent home -- and mazel tov, seriously.

Assistant Chief Ron Waldrop says the temple doesn't actually have signs posted prohibiting licensed guns on the property. He also says the gun fell out of the man's suit when he stood for a prayer. "It's fortunate more people weren't seriously injured," Waldrop says, adding that no criminal offense report has been filed since it was an accidental discharge with a permitted weapon.

Why the man felt the need to bring a gun into Rosh Hashanah services is still a mystery. At least it wasn't during Yom Kippur, as day-long fasting can make a man extra cranky. I believe the proper response is: Oy gevalt.

--Robert Wilonsky

 

[Richbaker]

Ask them if they ever plan to go to Israel....and how they will deal with all the people carrying there!

 

[JKimball]

Livid.... absolutely livid.

I don't know if you're looking for comments, but FWIW, I'd recommend you keep your cool. The cat's out of the bag and you can't change that by being livid. At this point acting angry or defensive when your family gives you grief will only make things worse. I wouldn't be too hard on your parents either, it sounds to me like they were just being proud parents. This may be an opportunity to help some anti's understand where you're coming from. That isn't done by angry arguing but by example and open, honest discussion.

Hope things work out alright for you.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

I know this works from personal witness. My girlfriend's great-grandmother's suitcase is in the holocaust museum and she has the "never again" attitude towards guns. Needless to say she is a fan of JPFO and the like. She is not silent about what happened the last time her family was without guns. I have never seen an argument from another Jew against that reason for having a weapon.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

"Why the man felt the need to bring a gun into Rosh Hashanah services is still a mystery" It's not like there are radical groups that hate Jews and would attack a temple or anything

 

[cnorman18]

L'Shanah Tovah

I heard about this tonight at our Rosh Hashanah dinner. I feel sure that a lot of Jews carry at services during the High Holy Days. If I had gone, I might have (I chose to stay home with Morry; this will be the first year he hasn't gone, but he's growing too confused to notice it much anyway.)

If you're quite sure your weapon is concealed well, when someone asks if you're carrying, just deny it (unless the person asking is a peace officer, of course). They'll be happy, you'll be happy, and it's none of their business anyway. I would think of denying that you're carrying as part of keeping your weapon "concealed", which in Texas we are required to do. I don't see that the law requires us to confess to anyone who asks.

Even better: Tell 'em you've changed your mind and don't carry any more, and let THAT get around on the family grapevine. Just undoing the damage that was done and getting back to where you were.

My mother couldn't keep a secret either. Were she still living, there's no way I'd tell her anything I didn't want to read in the paper. Sounds like you're in the same boat.

 

[Blackbeard]

Hmmm....time to watch Schindler's List again.

 

[CNYCacher]

I agree, people just can't keep their mouths shut about it. My brother was made to understand that he wasn't to tell anyone. Next time he saw me he patted me down in front of the family.

 

[SMMAssociates]

Home sick, so I didn't crank anybody off by having a 1911 on my belt at the Synagogue or dinner, but I was once called and asked to attend a Friday Night Service and to bring my gun....

Seems the local Fatah chapter was going to be there....

Guess they figured it out.... No problems.

OH restricts licensed concealed carry in a Church or Synagogue to "with permission". Unconstitutional, but WTH.... I shoot with my Rabbi....

I prefer not to be "outed" though.... Too many blissninnies.... One of mom's caregivers - her son has a CHL! - didn't understand why I carry.... (If I lived where she does, I'd carry in the shower....)

Regards,

 

[Black Adder LXX]

FWIW, I'd recommend you keep your cool.

Yeah, I agree. You seem to be a pretty level-headed guy. There's nothing that can be done, but you learned a valuable lesson about what level of information your family can handle. No need to give them anything sensitive like that again, eh?

 

[TexasRifleman]

I am more interested in what kind of cheap piece of junk goes off if you drop it on the floor!

As for the blogger, yeah I think another round of Schindlers List would be good, or maybe just pick up the newspaper now and then.
No one hates Jews huh?..... Sheesh

 

[.cheese.]

Yeah I'm fine now. In fact I'm going to go ahead and delete my comments from last night just so viewers can focus on the AD/ND incident in temple. I spammed up my own thread... now I'll fix that.

Let's concentrate on the blog and see if we can get some comments and emails sent to Mr. Wilonsky to perhaps educate the man a bit on the subject.

 

[grasssnake]

unarmed

Three comments, I am surprised at the ones that don't carry as they are disarmed victims waiting for a catastrophe to happen (temple, synagogue, church, town meeting, school).

Carry a 9 mm or a .40 cal something that will actually help you when your life is threatened and may be of better manufacture where it will not go off when dropped.

It is nice that he thought enough of his fellow worshippers to think about protecting them. I hope that someone will be there for me when I need help and I hope that they are able (armed) to help me.

 

[secamp32]

Why the man felt the need to bring a gun into Rosh Hashanah services is still a mystery

He's right, because nobody in this world hates Jews and want to kill us all!

I'm sure that most of the people in my shul would have passed out had they seen the Glock in the smartcarry and the 2-15 round mags in my suit pockets. They are so Sheeple that they would have been plotzing had they seen the Spyderco knife in my pocket.

 

[Noxx]

I know this works from personal witness. My girlfriend's great-grandmother's suitcase is in the holocaust museum and she has the "never again" attitude towards guns. Needless to say she is a fan of JPFO and the like. She is not silent about what happened the last time her family was without guns. I have never seen an argument from another Jew against that reason for having a weapon.

It's always been interesting to me to see some of the vast differences of opinion among Jews citing the same reasons. My grandmother, for example, is so adamantly anti-gun that we couldn't have squirtguns as kids. Most of her family, russian jews, were lost and that's her cited reason for condemning all firearms. Oddly enough, it's my cited reason for keeping lots of them.

Odd ducks we are.

 

[Sistema1927]

"Schmuck Brothers"?

Hmmmm, let me check my Yiddish dictionary.

 

[SMMAssociates]

Dad was a machine gunner in a CCC camp before WWII, and in the military all through that war and a good part of Korea. (He was a medic in WWII, and a Dentist during Korea, but managed to stay stateside both wars.) Anyway, he likely qualified with about everything - .45, Garand, Springfield, etc. Still didn't want any guns in the house unless they came with a badge. So I got the badge.... (Rent-a-cop.) During the riots of the late 60's, he thought about a shotgun, but didn't....

I think he may have enjoyed a range visit, but it never happened....

Meantime, the blissninnies that run my Synagogue are having problems with the Deputies outside carrying.... We don't say much....

(That's a problem with many Churches and Synagogues. The "Board" runs the place, not the Pastor, Rabbi, etc. The net result of the Ohio law is to force you to choose which house of worship, if any, over being able to protect yourself and family. Yet another soft target, but this time I think it's a Constitutional issue.)

[/rant]

Regards,

 

[Black Adder LXX]

He's right, because nobody in this world hates Jews and want to kill us all!

I'm sure that most of the people in my shul would have passed out had they seen the Glock in the smartcarry and the 2-15 round mags in my suit pockets. They are so Sheeple that they would have been plotzing had they seen the Spyderco knife in my pocket.

+1 (and loving the Yiddish in there, too) If any particular Religious group had justification to be armed, it would be the Jews. With all the extremist whackos out there, I think you'd have to be pretty ignorant to question the why's...

 

[.cheese.]

I added a rather long comment to the blog..... didn't proofread. I hope it went through ok.

 

[.cheese.]

I added a rather long comment to the blog..... didn't proofread. I hope it went through ok.

 

[RustyHammer]

I know a couple people who were there when it happened, but haven't heard anything about it from them yet. Will be interesting ....

 

[RustyHammer]

"Those who pound their swords into plowshares will soon be plowing for those who didn't!" -- that has got to be in the Torah somewhere.

 

[fred in nc]

In Israel the rabbis (e.g., the Orthodox Judaic authorities) have deemed that for a soldier to carry a firearm on Rosh Hashana or Yom Kippur or on the Sabbath is allowed. Since virtually every male Israeli up to the age of 45 is in the Miluim (IDF reserves) this is pretty universal. The decision was based on a decision in the Talmud concerning a massacre that occurred because Jewish soldiers left their swords in their tents. Who says Jews are not practical.

 

[armedandsafe]

If you're quite sure your weapon is concealed well, when someone asks if you're carrying, just deny it (unless the person asking is a peace officer, of course).

I refuse to lie to people. I just smile at the person asking and ask what color underwear they are wearing. When they pause in shock, I explain that my question was no less polite and personal than was theirs.

Pops