Additive vs Non-Additive Weight

[stanley_white]

I've been looking at the weights of different handguns lately and wondering what weight adds to the overall capability of the firearm and what weight does not.

For example, a full lug barrel adds weight on a revolver which might help tame muzzle flip while a long slide pistol has more weight moving back and forth when fired and could have the opposite effect.

In revolvers a six shot GP100 in .357 magnum with a 2.5" barrel weighs 36oz and the GP100 Match Champion in .357 Magnum weighs 38oz. For the extra 2oz the buyer gets 1.7" more barrel, a trigger job, target crown etc.

Do you ponder the ounces?

-Stan

 

[JTQ]

Do you ponder the ounces?
-Stan

I do.

In revolvers a six shot GP100 in .357 magnum with a 2.5" barrel weighs 36oz and the GP100 Match Champion in .357 Magnum weighs 38oz. For the extra 2oz the buyer gets 1.7" more barrel, a trigger job, target crown etc.

But not like this. I consider two ounces "hair splitting". I'd never notice that.

My first consideration is I choose the gun I'd rather shoot. However, sometimes there is a significant difference in weight that may make a difference. For instance, I may rather shoot a 1911, but a G17 may be 10 or more ounces lighter, and with more capacity, and that advantage of significantly less weight, and higher capacity, may make me choose the lighter gun that isn't as easy to shoot.

 

[Varminterror]

2 additional ounces at the end of a barrel mean a hell of a lot more than 2 ounces added anywhere near center.

Weight is only one physical characteristic which influences handling - BALANCE (center of mass) is a huge influence.

 

[RA40]

Agree about balance. Depends on the shooters perceived handling when recoiling.

Like this Firestar. The Shield shoots nicely, I get a bit more flip because the mass is a bit higher up and has a poly frame where on the Firestar that steel frame is in hand. The bore axis is decently low too so to me it feels pretty flat shooting. The Shield weight is far better though.

With 4-6" revolver the .38 spl isn't dramatic even with +P loads. When it comes to the .357 defense loads and varying bullet weights it can show up. I don't like shooting the 125g self defense loads from the M66, it can get my wrist tingling if I'm not holding it firmly. On the 4" 686 it seems less dramatic and that drops more with the 6" 686. More mental because I don't like a sharp wrist pain which is why I dislike harder feeling 10mm, .44 mag, etc. I feel a wrist tingle and the mental game is over because the flinch shows up.

 

[DeepSouth]

I’ve wonder for years why the typical slide now days is square topped. The old 1911, AMT backup and most every semi auto made before 1990 with the rounded top style is superior in every way. Including weight loss.

 

[reddog81]

I don’t know how much faith I’d put in Rugers listed weights. They used to just have one weight across all the different barrel lengths of a model.

 

[JTQ]

I’ve wonder for years why the typical slide now days is square topped. The old 1911, AMT backup and most every semi auto made before 1990 with the rounded top style is superior in every way. Including weight loss.

Probably ease of manufacturing.

The other thing is a 1911, Hi-Power, and CZ75 have locking lugs on the barrel, while most of the more modern semi-autos, beginning with the SIG guns and most everything since, use the chamber hood to lock into the slide and don't have barrel lugs on top of the barrel to match up with the slide.

 

[Mizar]

I’ve wonder for years why the typical slide now days is square topped.

It's simple engineering... Almost all of today's Browning style locked breech pistols lock the barrel on the ejection port, instead with the more complex internal locking lugs. And because of that one can easily square up the locking surfaces, thus making the slide and barrel even easier to machine. And, furthermore, you get rid of the separate barrel bushing, whose only (I repeat - THE only) purpose is to fill the hole left in the slide from machining the internal locking lugs. So, square slides Vs. rounded ones - it's not about weight reduction or gain, but to simply ease the manufacturing process, nothing more.

 

[DeepSouth]

Probably ease of manufacturing.

The other thing is a 1911, Hi-Power, and CZ75 have locking lugs on the barrel, while most of the more modern semi-autos, beginning with the SIG guns and most everything since, use the chamber hood to lock into the slide and don't have barrel lugs on top of the barrel to match up with the slide.

It's simple engineering... Almost all of today's Browning style locked breech pistols lock the barrel on the ejection port, instead with the more complex internal locking lugs. And because of that one can easily square up the locking surfaces, thus making the slide and barrel even easier to machine. And, furthermore, you get rid of the separate barrel bushing, whose only (I repeat - THE only) purpose is to fill the hole left in the slide from machining the internal locking lugs. So, square slides Vs. rounded ones - it's not about weight reduction or gain, but to simply ease the manufacturing process, nothing more.

Well now I know, thanks for that.
I’ve obviously never thought about that but now that it’s pointed out it seems obvious.

I still prefer the rounded top, I’m no engineer but I think I could put rounded top on many if not most semi autos. I have a PM45 I think I could easily shave a couple ounces off of with a file and not hurt anything. I’ve strongly considered buying a stripped slide and giving it shot, maybe I will one day.

 

[herrwalther]

My current carry handgun is 2 oz lighter than my last one. And yes, I notice the difference. The balance is about the same. As the heavier gun had a heavier slide which added weight over the entire top half. I am starting to have more back problems (not from carrying) so I am transitioning to carrying lighter guns and ammo.

Weight will soak up recoil on both revolvers and semis. But added weight also means you are carrying that all day.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Are we talking about carrying vs shooting? Two different questions.
On the purely weight question, swapped an early 629 on a slightly newer one with the lugged barrel; it did tame some .44 recoil.
Bore axis makes a difference, too. A Centennial sits lower in the hand than an equivalent exposed hammer J gun, comparing alloy to alloy, steel to steel.
Finally, there is action type. In my opinion, having fired the same cartridge (9mm and .45) in revolvers and autos of approximately equal weight, the revo recoils more. A well balanced autoloader smooths out recoil.
There are exceptions...a blowback .380 PPK has a rappy recoil, compared to a locked breech G42.
Moon

 

[9mmepiphany]

what weight adds to the overall capability of the firearm and what weight does not.

A heavier pistol will slow down transitions between targets. It's additional inertia makes it not only it slower to accelerate but slower to stop on target...either requiring a gradual stop or by over swinging and needing to swing back onto target

 

[bangswitch]

I only care about the weight when I'm carrying it. Every gun is different in its handling characteristics due to its weight, or weight distribution. A 2-1/2 inch barrel revolver doesn't shoot like a 6", even if they are the same model. A revolver doesn't shoot like a semiauto, and so on. You adapt to the weight difference through practice with the individual gun. I know my Commander-size 1911 is lighter than my full-size 1911, and will have more muzzle rise and snappier recoil, and allow for that. One thing you do have to account for is the change in weight of the same gun, when fully loaded vs. almost empty, as in a double stack semiauto. The balance definitely changes between the first shot and the fifteenth.

 

[Rexster]

Weight, especially weight out toward the muzzle, damps muzzle flip. By age 50, muzzle flip had ceased to be fun. By age 60, muzzle flip was my nemesis. Of course, weight makes all-day carry more difficult, so, it is necessary to keep the weight reasonable. Mass/weight that is centered above the belt line has a pendulum effect, that makes all-day carry more difficult.