Advice on rifle for reloading and BP

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high country

high country

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It is spring, and I am thinking that it is time to add one to the safe. I will try not to be too long winded in my thoughts, and get to the point ;)

One option is a .308 bolt action, but honestly, I don't hunt big game and other than bird hunting, most of my shooting is "plinking" with steel plates/clay pigeons/gallon milk jugs/etc. So I am sort of thinking that, although I would like to add a .308 bolt action to the collection at some point if I run across the right deal, my shooting enjoyment might be maximized elsehwere.

So, I started thinking about other options. I have wanted to get a basic reloading setup and start doing some reloading. I have also enjoyed shooting a few black powder muzzle loaders. So, I am thinking that I could combine the two, and get something chambered for a cartridge that is on the easier side to reload, and can be loaded as a black powder cartridge. I don't want to be limited to black powder, and although I like shooting friends' muzzle loaders from time to time, I definitely want a cartridge gun.

A little reading around suggests that generally rimmed straight wall cartidges are good for a beginning reloader, and that among those, .45-70 seems to be the most popular. But, there is also .45 long colt, and it seems that both .357 and .44 were loaded in blackpowder at least for handguns. And (I think) that .30-30 was originally a black powder cartridge?

So, I would like to see what everyones thoughts are concerning:

1. An H&R single shot in .45-70. I have a 12 gauge single from them that I like, although it isn't all that inspiring to shoot. But it seems like that would be a good platform for playing with the .45-70 from light blackpowder loads to heavier more modern loads, getting experience with reloading, and can always be fitted with a different barrel if I decide to later.

2. A lever action in .357 or .44 mag. I think it would be fun to have a lever action, and either those cartridges see like they should be a good intro to reloading. I could use .38 special for plinking if I wanted. But, is black powder loading for .357 and .44 doable in a rifle? These are harder to find, and more expensive, and if I bought one I would have to factor in the cost of the inevitable revolver in the same cartridge...

3. A lever action in .30-30. It is a lever, so more fun to shoot than a single, and I could find one pretty inexpensively. But I am not sure that it lends itself quite as well to experimentation with reloading as the other too, and I am not sure if I should stick with a straight wall cartridge for my intro to reloading?

Keeping in mind that the goals here are essentially a plinking rifle chambered in a cartridge that will be a good intro into reloading, I would really appreciate your thoughts on those options, as well as suggestions on other cartridges or rifles, or just general advice;)

Thanks!
 
WOw!
That blue slanted type hurts my eyes! :cuss:

As for the OP question?

The 30-30 was never a black-powder caliber.
Shortly after it was introduced as Winchesters first smokeless powder cartridge, they introduced the .32 Winchester Special with slower rifling so it could be loaded with black powder.
Small .30 cal bores with fast rifling like a 30-30 will foul badly in a few shots with black powder.

You can load black powder in the .357 or .44 lever-actions.
But, black powder fouling is a beech to clean and requires soap & hot water cleaning to get it all and prevent rusting.

Your best bet would be the one you seem to like anyway.
That single-shot 45-70 would be a perfect place to start reloading black powder.

As for costs to get started?
It can vary from a Lee Hand tool and components to $300- $400 for one of the mostly complete reloading press starter kits.

That is what I would suggest, as resizing and priming with a hammer on a Lee hand tool gets real old, real fast.

rc
 
I did it my way / these are updated pic's

Picture 016.jpg Picture 014.jpg these are more pic's
of the same saiga .308 as in my thread . they are just updated with some changes .
 
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Huh :rolleyes:

Anyway, thanks for the background on the .30-30, very interesting. I guess I am leaning towards the .45-70 as you surmized, but am just struggling to come to grips with why exactly it appeals to me so much ;)

Anyway, that option leaves more money for the reloading setup that is more the point of this than the rifle. As far as primers go, I know there was a dry spell, but it seems like they are pretty available now, and $30-$40 for 1000 doesn't seem cost prohibitive. I will definitely spend some time looking at what reloading kit/setup will work best for my purposes.

Again, thanks, and of course I would like any other input folks have, on reloading and shooting .45-70, H&Rs in .45-70, etc ...
 
I think the fundamental reloading equipment is the manual.
I had read and reread the current Lyman book before I ever sized a case.
The ABCs of Handloading really takes it from the basics, but then a manual from Lyman, Speer, Sierra, or Hornady will give actual load data. There is a lot of literature available FREE from the powder and bullet companies. Some have videos so you can see the process in action. Study up, then tool up.

Get a Midway print catalog and look through their book and video section for good stuff.
www.midwayusa.com

I am sensitive to recoil and cannot recommend the light H&R in .45-70. Maybe a nice 10-12 lb Pedersoli. I find even the typical .30-30 lever action to be a hard kicker with its light weight and narrow buttplate.
On the other hand, I have little interest in pistol caliber carbines except as required for CAS.

I think a bolt action .223 would be a great platform to learn on. A Stevens or Savage will not be any more expensive than a H&R .45-70 plus a Marlin .30-30.
 
45-70 is a good place to start. You can load from a few grains of pistol powder behind a round ball to 530 grainer over a case full of FFg.

Now guns is another matter. Some of the Italian replicas are quite adequate but not inexpensive or you can go with Navy Arms Trapdoor replicas or up to Shiloh Sharps reproductions and they ain't cheap.

Or you can find an old original trap door and make it your own.

45-70.jpg
 
Personally I like the .45-70 for loading BP, one of my other favorite BP cartridges is the .38-55, though you will not find .38-55 chambered in an inexpensive plinker type rifle.

As mentioned earlier BP and modern lever actions do not always work well together with the fouling. The main reason being modern cast bullets use a petrolium based lubrication which when mixed with BP residue becomes a thick black corrosive tar. BP guns work better with natural lubes like bear grease and beeswax.
 
Another vote for 45-70.

I have an H&R Buffalo Classic in 45-70. Its just a really fun, inexpensive, neat gun. The 45-70 is easy to load for and very forgiving. Components are easy to get, and you might even start casting for it. It can handle just about all of the loading levels, right up to the heaviest.

http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/buffalo.asp

You can get the half sized version in 45 colt or 38-55.
 
Iggy, that is a beautiful piece, wow! Hats off.

Thanks all for comments. I guess I am leaning towards the .45-70 of the several that I mentioned based on the suggestions above. Inexpensive, fun, and a forgiving cartridge for reloading.

An interesting comment though from Jim Watson, that the .223 would be a good platform. I guess from my uninformed thinking, I assumed that a smaller bore high pressure necked rifle cartridge would be a frustrating one to start with for a beginning reloader. Am I wrong? Even if it is not a tricky as I thought, it still seems like the variety of things one could do on the reloading bench would be more limited, since I am not terribly interested in punching paper to see if this or that made a 1/4" in difference in my pattern from a benchrest? Please correct me if I am thinking about that wrong, that is why I posted here.

BTW they have a broad selection of large rifle primers at midway in that price range (I can say that right? If not sorry, please delete).
 
reloadergriz said:
hello high country .. please tell me where you found primers for $30. per 1 K .. in so far as your Huh icon ( meaning roll eyes/sarcastic ) i was trying to get my point acrossed about the dangers of black powder .. true story: a reloader of some 30 years was loading up black powder on his kitchen table, which was his usual place to do so .. unbeknownst to him,. his wife had just changed the table cloth to 'vinyl' .. well static electricity set off his black powder ( that was open ) and he lost an eye and also suffered severe burns ! .. those who are forewarned are forearmed . that was my point ..
Click to expand...
Modern black powder is not ignited by static electricity. This has been discussed at length in the black powder forum here.
 
i will second the h&r buffalo classic in 45/70 I had a gunsmith mount a tang sight on mine, took a little work with a router on the stock but works great
 
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