Alternative to "gun buy-backs"?

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bk42261

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Instead of gun "buy-backs" how about" Criminal Buy-backs" where
the victims in high crime areas could receive rewards for turning in
criminals or criminal activity (such as meth labs, drug dealer locations, etc.)
in return for cash?
Payment could be based on types and amounts of drugs seized ,firearms seized, and number of individuals apprehended.
Also maybe (Dare I say it?) number of illegal aliens apprehended.

At worst it can't be any less effective than gun buy-backs at "Preventing
Crime".
 
A lot of local law enforcement agencies already do that. Problem is, most anyone who might be inclined to turn in their neighbors are more afraid of their neighbors than they want some spare cash. Places like South Chicago, no one talks to police. Being suspected of talking to the cops, or snitching, is enough to wind up dead in the gutter on the other side of town.
 
Criminal buy backs have been around for centuries. Offer a reward high enough and your mother will turn you in.

I don't understand why some gun owners get so upset over gun buyback programs. They do nothing to hurt us, in fact they can help. At the same time they drain gun grabbers resources and make them feel better. It is a win/win for us and them.

I've never seen a buyback program funded with tax money. It is always donated by wealthy liberal donors or other groups. The cops there are off duty and hired by the buy back sponsor just like off duty cops who work 2nd jobs doing security at ball games etc. Virtually all of the guns turned in are worthless junk and a great many don't even work.

I got $75 for a cheap imported non-working .22 revolver a few years ago. I had to put all of the parts in a bag. I took money from gun grabbers and bought some ammo with it. I have a couple more I'd like to get rid of if they ever have another buy back here.
 
I have very mixed feelings about buybacks. For those who turn in an unsafe junker, that’s great. Unfortunately, I’ve seen way to many beautiful guns turned in and destined for a shredder that it just makes me want to cry.

On the other hand, depending on the state laws, a lot of nice guns have been rescued by buyers ahead of the turn in table. Unfortunately, many of the people turning in guns are ignorant or afraid of private party sales and still turn them in.

I wish more states had a law like Arizona that requires surrendered and confiscated guns to be sold to FFLs for resale to the public. This has totally eliminated buybacks in Arizona.
 
Buy backs are funded by the anti crowd to "get dangerous guns off the streets". The thing is that most of the guns returned are utter crap. The majority of the people turning in the guns know this already. On occasion some nice pieces come through, but often times the guns are worth less than the money given in exchange. Either that or they are used as dumping grounds for guns used in crimes. There has been research to prove this (I'm too lazy to take to Google to prove my point).

There is no way for a gun buy back program to be truly effective at getting guns out of the hands of criminals. Criminals know what their guns are worth, what it costs them to obtain the guns. Say a buy back were to offer $250 for any Glock turned in... do you think there would be many takers? There might be a small few that turn in a Glock because they don't want the trouble of trying to sell it themselves (don't realize they can legally sell it, don't know what it is worth, etc.) or they decide that they don't want the gun on some moral grounds. But for people who know guns, law abiding or otherwise, won't turn in a functioning Glock for $250 when they know that they can at least fetch $50 more by selling it at a gun show.

If you want to get something dangerous off the street, how about offering a drug buy back... Cash paid for any illegal drug or abusable prescription drug (not written to a living family member), no questions asked.
 
Criminal buy backs have been around for centuries. Offer a reward high enough and your mother will turn you in.

This is true. It wasn't always very effective, just like it still isn't very effective today.

I don't understand why some gun owners get so upset over gun buyback programs. They do nothing to hurt us, in fact they can help. At the same time they drain gun grabbers resources and make them feel better. It is a win/win for us and them.

It's the marketing. They want to get dangerous guns off the streets. In other words, they want to have criminals voluntarily disarm themselves for a Wal Mart gift card. It simply doesn't happen that way. Criminals don't see the light because some over privileged liberal loon says "gun are bad, mmmkay."

It does hurt us. It gives the fence sitting general public the impression that they are successfully getting guns off the streets. It sways the fence sitters potentially, to side with the anti's. That's where the harm lies. It hurts us because law abiding citizens who could use those guns for defense against criminals are now disarmed. It's not a win for us at all, unless contributing to their schemes of confiscation via attrition is somehow considered a pro 2A win. They win. We lose.


Resources? With folks like Bloomberg financing these endeavors, money is not important. The few grand they might spend to set it up, and purchase the gift cards or whatever, is nothing to him, who has dedicated his fortune to gun control.

I've never seen a buyback program funded with tax money. It is always donated by wealthy liberal donors or other groups. The cops there are off duty and hired by the buy back sponsor just like off duty cops who work 2nd jobs doing security at ball games etc.

Yes. and?


Virtually all of the guns turned in are worthless junk and a great many don't even work.

Virtually some of the guns turned in are worthless junk. Others are perfectly functional, some even collectible, like the registered functional Stg-44 some old widow brought to a buy back. Thankfully, it was recognized for what it was and saved rather than scrapped. Plenty of bolt actions, shotguns, and other guns that are rarely used to commit crimes get turned in at each of these things. Boy, I'm sure glad my community is safer because millennial moron turned in grand dad's WWII bring back M1 carbine or K98 Mauser. :rolleyes:

I got $75 for a cheap imported non-working .22 revolver a few years ago. I had to put all of the parts in a bag. I took money from gun grabbers and bought some ammo with it. I have a couple more I'd like to get rid of if they ever have another buy back here.

And here in lies the crux of the problem. YOU benefit. Only you (aside from supporting this anti-gun crusade). You donated to them. Not money, but propaganda. You're a gun owner who gladly turned in a gun for cash. They don't care if it's worthless junk, or an Airsoft replica. They'll use it for propaganda. They'll spin it the way they always do. The only benefit about gun buy backs is that they are generally failures.

I'd rather sell or donate a junk gun to a gun-smithing apprentice as something to practice on. Which I've done with an H&R top break .32 S&W. Missing parts, but worth something to further a pro 2A cause, rather than buy into an anti 2A cause.

But hey, I'm not you. You do whatever you please. It's your property, and therefore, your decision.
 
I turned in 2 guns to a buy back once when I was in need of money. One was an old H&R top break that wasn't safe to shoot anymore. The other was a semi auto .22 that was broken and parts were no longer available.
 
If too many "wonderful" guns are sold for pennies on the dollar and destined for the shredder, I have to ask, who's fault is that? The owner, who obviously didn't put family members in the know about his valuable firearms and left them with no means of converting them to their market value.

It's been pointed out over and over by the buyers of those guns sitting at card tables or working the lines of sellers that those "valuable guns" were left to them largely by deceased family members. He or she may have had a plan to dispose of them but their health or life interfered with their intent faster than their resolve to fix the problem.

If it's an NFA Stamped gun you'd have a plan on how to pass it on to responsible members of your family, why is a CMP Garand any different? That documented SKS bring back from Vietnam? The P7 in the box with only ten rounds thru it that was just a bit too weird for actual carry - so it became a safe queen?

Well, Grandpa's Model of 1911 Singer .45ACP is now in the hands of grandma, or his daughter, and all she knows is that it's a "gun," and she has no use for it. Again - who's fault is that?

If you have valuable guns to give to your family, are you going to gift them before you pass away, and at least see their expressions of joy (or disgust)? The alternative is never knowing what happens to your guns once you are gone.

For every "wonderful" gun sold back to the anti gunners, there is a huge fail - somebody didn't take the effort to see they would be appreciated. Which means their family, for better or worse, isn't able to benefit from that appreciation, financially or thru ownership.

Nope, every "wonderful" gun is actually evidence somebody was selfishly hoarding it with no thought for others. Just like barn find cars - they go for pennies on the dollar. Sometimes they get junked, or rat rodded, but they get exactly what the owner made sure would happen.

As for "criminal buybacks" would monetizing the value of human beings solve the underlying problems of a lack of ethics, poverty, poor decision making, and horrible political representation? No.
 
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I've got one I'll turn in for whatever money they give out. And yes it's broken piece of crap.
 
I have a Noble Model 40 pump shotgun I bought for Eight Dollars ($8) which functions only as a single shot (although shells can be loaded in the magazine and manually released to feed). It is safe to fire single shot. I use it with bird bombs, blanks, dragons breath, red meteor flares, pyrotechnics I don't want to use in a good barrel. I would not take $100 for it at a gun buy-back.


National Academy of Sciences, National Research Council,
"Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review" (2004) Gun Buy-Backs
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10881&page=95
Gun Buy-Backs

Gun buy-back programs involve a government or private group paying individuals to turn in guns they possess. The programs do not require the participants to identify themselves, in order to encourage participation by offenders or those with weapons used in crimes. The guns are then destroyed. The theoretical premise for gun buy-back programs is that the program will lead to fewer guns on the streets because fewer guns are available for either theft or trade, and that consequently violence will decline. It is the committee’s view that the theory underlying gun buy-back programs is badly flawed and the empirical evidence demonstrates the ineffectiveness of these programs.

The theory on which gun buy-back programs is based is flawed in three respects.

First, the guns that are typically surrendered in gun buy-backs are those that are least likely to be used in criminal activities. Typically, the guns turned in tend to be of two types: (1) old, malfunctioning guns whose resale value is less than the reward offered in buy-back programs or (2) guns owned by individuals who derive little value from the possession of the guns (e.g., those who have inherited guns). The Police Executive Research Forum (1996) found this in their analysis of the differences between weapons handed in and those used in crimes. In contrast, those who are either using guns to carry out crimes or as protection in the course of engaging in other illegal activities, such as drug selling, have actively acquired their guns and are unlikely to want to participate in such programs.

Second, because replacement guns are relatively easily obtained, the actual decline in the number of guns on the street may be smaller than the number of guns that are turned in.

Third, the likelihood that any particular gun will be used in a crime in a given year is low. In 1999, approximately 6,500 homicides were committed with handguns. There are approximately 70 million handguns in the United States. Thus, if a different handgun were used in each homicide, the likelihood that a particular handgun would be used to kill an individual in a particular year is 1 in 10,000. The typical gun buy-back program yields less than 1,000 guns. Even ignoring the first two points made above (the guns turned in are unlikely to be used by criminals and may be replaced by purchases of new guns), one would expect a reduction of less than one-tenth of one homicide per year in response to such a gun buy-back program. The program might be cost-effective if those were the correct parameters, but the small scale makes it highly unlikely that its effects would be detected.

In light of the weakness in the theory underlying gun buy-backs, it is not surprising that research evaluations of U.S. efforts have consistently failed to document any link between such programs and reductions in gun violence (Callahan et al., 1994; Police Executive Research Forum, 1996; Rosenfeld, 1996).

Outside the United States there have been a small number of buy-backs of much larger quantities of weapons, in response to high-profile mass murders with firearms. Following a killing of 35 persons in Tasmania in 1996 by a lone gunman, the Australian government prohibited certain categories of long guns and provided funds to buy back all such weapons in private hands (Reuter and Mouzos, 2003). A total of 640,000 weapons were handed in to the government (at an average price of approximately $350), constituting about 20 percent of the estimated stock of weapons. The weapons subject to the buy-back, however, accounted for a modest share of all homicides or violent crimes more generally prior to the buy-back. Unsurprisingly, Reuter and Mouzos (2003) were unable to find evidence of a substantial decline in rates for these crimes. They noted that in the six years following the buy-back, there were no mass murders with firearms and fewer mass murders than in the previous period; these are both weak tests given the small numbers of such incidents annually.

CNB: Buy-Backs are supposed to prevent suicides by removing guns from the household. FS/S is the proportion of firearm suicide to total suicide.

National Academy of Sciences, National Research Council,
"Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review" (2004)
Chapter 7 Firearms and Suicide
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10881&page=169
In Box 7-2, for example, we present the results of a simulation conducted by the committee. In this Monte Carlo simulation, we study the relation between the suicide rate and FS/S as a proxy for gun ownership, but we derive very different results than those reported by Miller et al. (2002a, 2002c). In particular, we find a negative association between the suicide rate and FS/S: in this simulation, if FS/S is a good proxy for ownership, gun owners are less likely than nonowners to commit suicide.

I refuse to give financial support to a failed gun control policy that does not affect bad behavior but insted legitimizes "gun control" as voodoo criminology.
 
As an alternative to buy-backs, how about sell-forwards?

I recall back in the 1960s, NRA gave gunclub membership and M1 Garands and Carbines to black civil rights crusaders in Monroe NC who were under seige by KKK aided by the local sheriff.

As Karl Hess ("Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue; extremism in defense of liberty is no vice") also infamously stated, it would not be America if it did not produce at least a few men who tired of the palaver (aka BS) and took their gun off the mantelpiece, to use themselves or to give to the underdog who needed it.

Gun sell-back, in answer to gun buy-back? How about gun give-forward to those who can't defend themselves? How's that for an alternative?
 
"...Criminal Buy-backs..." Um, no. Round up the assorted criminals. And if you're going to buy unwanted firearms, tax payers shouldn't have to foot the additional bill. Said firearms should be required to be in working condition and no toys too.
"...Buy backs are funded by the anti crowd..." Tax payers. The anti's don't pay for anything that inconveniences themselves.
 
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