Always check headspace on Milsurp?

[JonB]

Do you guys always check the headspace on a new (old) military surplus rifle when you get it? I got a call that my M44 is here (wooohoo!). I asked the gun shop that is doing the FFL transfer for me if they can check it and he said they don't carry the gauges for the old stuff.

I am thinking it would be a good 'peace of mind' thing as well as to make sure it is safe to shoot. But it may be an adventure to find a shop that has the right gauges. Also, it is supposed to have matching numbers on reciever and bolt - still a good idea to check headspace??

 

[ribbonstone]

Nerly everyone will tell you to have it checked...but i'd bet 99% of those people don't get their rifles checked. Are darned few gunshops with headspace guages at all, and if they do, they are for somthing you don't own.

Save gas and time, call those shops first and ask.

 

[Ian Sean]

No I have not....but it is a good idea.

Closely inspect to judge the condition of the chamber and bore, which is one reason why I never buy a Mil-surp or used anything sight unseen. Most of the M-44's I have seen are in great shape and I don't think you will have any trouble.

With some calibers we are just out of luck, I know Forster doesn't even make 7.62x54 headspace gauges. Don't know about other manufacturers though.

 

[The_Fall_Guy]

I've bought 3 and didn't check the headspace and they all shoot fine.
I'm not saying thats the right thing to do.

 

[cracked butt]

I used to worry about headspace, but after buying 30-some milsurps, I have only 1 that might be questionable which is a Ishapore SMLE. If the serial number on the bolt matches the receiver on a Mauser or Mosin and the gun is in relativey good condition, I worry very little about headspace. I worry not at all about K-31s.
For US rifles I can't comment much. I have an 03A3 which I had rebarreled with a surpolus barrel, and a M1 fromCMP- once again headspace is not an issue with these.

 

[Jim Watson]

I don't see much cause for worrying about headspace on a surplus rifle in good mechanical condition being shot with surplus ammunition. It would be different if you were reloading the Slobbovian surplus brass, or if the rifle had excess chamber headspace due to wear or battering, but not if it is just kind of sloppy. Read Hatcher's Notebook on headspace and some of the experiments he ran.

 

[toecutter]

Echoing the Hatcher's Notebook sentiment:

Headspace is critical in bottle neck rimless cartridges for two reasons, excessive headspace will allow the round to slide forward and not take a full primer hit, this may result in failure to fire. The other time it becomes truely critical is if you care about your brass. The easiest way to tell is compare a fired case to an unfired case. If the shoulder is blown forward then your headspace is screwed up. In most cases this will cost you more to fix than you paid for the rifle. If you bought a cheap rifle that goes bang when you pull the trigger and chambers rounds without issue, then I wouldn't knock it. just shoot the surplus ammo, and toss the brass when you're done.

 

[JonB]

Cool thanks guys. I don't reload and cheap surplus ammo is one of the reasons I bought the thing to begin with. The M44 I bought is supposed to be excellent condition, hand selected from Interordnance.

Where can I find this Hatcher fellow's notebook?

 

[sixgunner455]

The M44 headspaces on the rim, so if the bolt will close on the round, then your headspace is fine to shoot. If it won't close, then it is too long. Seems a little bit cowboy to chamber a round to see if it is safe to put rounds through, but there it is.

 

[atomchaser]

If the bolt and reciever number match and the chamber appears to be in good condition I shoot it. I check the brass after firing the first round to see there are any problems. If I had a questionable or mismatched gun I would sandbag it for the first couple rounds if I couldn't headspace it first.

 

[armoredman]

There are coin gauges to check almost any caliber, including 7.62x54R. I would never fire any used rifle without having it mechanically checked by a competant gunsmith, including headspace. I borrowed coin gauges from a guy on Russian Mosin Nagant Page and Forum to headspace my Mosins.
If you wish to simply go and shoot, OK, have fun. I prefer a check be done.

 

[mrmeval]

7.62x54R gauge

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/headspace/index.asp

They gauge mentioned in the article. Their prices are good.
http://www.mansonreamers.com/PriceList.htm

Brownells has them but I can't see the discount just now.

 

[dfaugh]

Well, I do a "quick and dirty" headspace check(after the usual viual check).... Take the rifle out back, and holding it (especially the action) well away from my body, and such that any pieces unlikely to come flying in my direction, I fire it. then re-inspect the gun, and the cases. Works better with commecial (brass cased) ammo, as you might not see a problem with steel-cased surplus. also, you never quite know what you're getting with surplus ammo....I had some 8mm Mauser that split right down the middle of the case body, in a gun that had been fine with other milsurp, commercial (U.S. and foreign) and medium-hot handloads.

 

[cracked butt]

Another thing to consider- some european cartridges in military rifles have different headspace specs than those designated by SAAMI. 6.5x55 is a perfect example of this, a m96 swede rifle may be perfectly within the specifications of a swedish armorer, but will swallow a SAAMI no-go guage whole.

I have to reiterate that most surplus bolt action rifles aren't going to have problems- the only rifles that I've heard of commonly having headspace problems are the occasional enfield or turk mauser that has seen heavy use with little or no maintenance during its life span.

 

[Cosmoline]

I do on 8x57JS Mausers. I've had a lot of headspace problems with them over the years. But I rarely bother with matching Mosins. The 54R seems to tolerate sloppy headspace a lot better than the JS or .30'06. I usually start a Mosin with mild handloads in brass cases, then check for the usual signs of primer bulge, backing out, excess flow, piercing, incipient rings, etc.

That said, the only way to be truly safe is to check with the gauge first.

so if the bolt will close on the round, then your headspace is fine to shoot

Not really. It will close on the round if it has too much headspace. I had an M-28 that went through the worst of the Winter War and had out of speck headspace. It would pierce the primers and stretch the brass badly. That was one I only string fired.