Ammunition Used by Washington State Patrol
- Thread starter G19
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yesit'sloaded
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I'm going to bet Speer Gold Dots or Remington Golden Sabers, but I have no clue.
rickomatic
Member
That's an unusual question. Why do you ask?
xquercus
Member
If th
MD_Willington
Member
no promises, but there is a member of the WA State Patrol down the street.. if I run into him I could ask...
I'm curious for a couple reasons. First of all, just as Mannix suggested, use of the same load as local LEO may make it more difficult for a prosecutor to question one's choice of ammo after a self defense situation. Secondly, I've heard the KC Sheriff's Office uses Gold Dots. Gold Dots definitely feed poorly in my Glock. If KCSO does in fact use Gold Dots, I'm curious if there is some issue with my particular pistol.
JamisJockey
member
Does anyone actually have an example, non-ancedotal, of a prosecuter targeting someone in a self defense case over thier ammo choice?
Just pick some otc ammo that works well in your pistol if you're so worried about that.
Just pick some otc ammo that works well in your pistol if you're so worried about that.
Grizzly Adams
Member
The only time in resent memory that I recall that the ammo of choice came into question is the Black Talon issue and I don't believe that was a prosecution issue.
I always choose what functions and performs best for the particular gun. My first priority is to stay alive. Defending myself in court is secondary.
strangelittleman
Member
What brand/ model/ caliber of service pistol do the WSP & KCSO carry?
Robert Hairless
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Ah, yes, the "Show me the cites and prove it to me" argument.
Alas, it's just before Thanksgiving and the research staff member assigned to serve you is on leave until after the holidays. On his return he will deliver that information to your home, neatly bound and indexed of course, and place it on your desk for you to peruse at your leisure. He will stand by to turn the pages and read to you.
RKBABob
Member
During the Harold Fish case in Arizona (lots of allegations of prosecutorial misconduct) the prosecutor stated...
And one juror's reaction...
Of course, a prosecutor could also make an issue of FMJ bullets being "tactical, military-style bullets, designed to KILL!"
If a defendant used these bullets...
...I'd vote to convict him..... of being stupid!
JamisJockey
member
The proof is in the puddin. Until someone posts actual cases where someone was gone after for thier choice in ammo, I won't buy that arguement.
If you're involved in a questionable shoot, they are going to pick apart everything you did anyways. There are more important things to obcess about.
Not much we can do about that, except roll over and be victims. Who here doesn't use hollowpoints for self defense?
And this case doesn't seem to cite a specific brand of ammo. Just hollowpoints.
RKBABob
Member
Just load up with something that says "Self-Defense" or "Personal Defense" on the package, and be done with it. I'd avoid anything with the words "Tactical," "Extreme," "Talon," or "Fang." (Then again, I think that kind of marketing is tasteless... and avoid those anyhow.)
Bart Noir
Member
Hey G19, welcome to the forum!
Your first ever post was a short, concise, and meaningful question. That is setting the standard for some of us others, who ramble on a bit much.
I guess you live in King Co, so we may be neighbors. Well, could be, weirder things have happened. Where to you like to shoot?
Bart Noir
Who looks to ID the cop's pistollas but never asks about ammo.
Your first ever post was a short, concise, and meaningful question. That is setting the standard for some of us others, who ramble on a bit much.
I guess you live in King Co, so we may be neighbors. Well, could be, weirder things have happened. Where to you like to shoot?
Bart Noir
Who looks to ID the cop's pistollas but never asks about ammo.
That's not how the legal system works. Juries aren't polled to determine what facts swayed them. Most arguments (or even evidence) presented by prosecutors don't see the light of day because most cases aren't reported. Cases are reported based on whether they have something intriguing, have some precedential value, or the judge just wants it reported.
Further, most appellate cases (often the source of the most interesting or important decisions) only deal with the specific facts at issue for the exact matter they are going to decide. Appellate courts also give great deference to the decision made by the trial judge (if a bench trial) or jury. If a decision is not clearly erroneous, the appellate court will uphold it, and you may never know that the prosecutor harped on the type of ammunition in trial or closing arguments.
Here's a test: determine if a jury can be swayed by the knowledge that one witness used foul language while another did not. Please provide a citation to the case. I'll give you a hint: it was in the Middle District of Tennessee, was a bench trial in September 2000, and involved a wrongful death suit. Don't tell me that you can't find a citation to it and thus it didn't occur. I was there, and I watched the jury as they learned this fact. If you weren't there, you'd never know it happened because the case 1) wasn't reported and 2) the jury isn't required to say why they made their decision.
Thank you for calling me on it as my post may have implied that I did. No, I don't know of any cases first hand. There was an article I read about six months ago by Massad Ayoob regarding a case where the prosecutor swayed the jury by pointing out the lethality (duh) of the defendant's choice in ammo. According to the article, it was the same brand of ammo used by the local LE, however this fact was not brought up in court. The quotes that RKBABob and JamisJockey posted sound familiar so it may be from the same case. I believe the defendant was convicted however I'm unaware of the other factors involved in the case.
I always see KCSO with Glocks. I suspect .40 but that is pure speculation. I'm unfamiliar with WSP. This morning, I just spoke with a local officer in Snohomish, WA (different county but just North of me). They have some degree of choice as to what they carry. Most officers carry a Glock 27 with .40 Speer Gold Dots.
Yes, I live just outside the Woodinville city limits. For pistol shooting I've only shot at Wayde's in Bellevue. For rifle we usually make a whole day of it and head out to the National Forest just North of North Bend. I grew up in a very rural area in the Northeast so the whole idea of shooting in a designated (indoor) range is a bit foreign to me. There are certainly some nice benefits though. I've driven by a range between Mill Creek and Lynnwood but have never gone there to shoot. Some day for sure though!
Anyway, the ammo carried by KCSO and WSP may or may not have any bearing should one end up in court over a self defense shooting, I'm still interested if anyone can chime in. If I find out off the board, I'll be sure to post it here.
JamisJockey
member
Well, since Aooyb is the be all and end all of self defense....
Again there are more important things to worry about. Choose ammo that funcitons properly in your sd guns and never look back.
If you're in court they are going to pick apart every little detail no matter what. Custom +p+ hollowpoint handloads of death?
Well, you were just looking to kill someone, weren't you?
FMJ milspec ball ammo?
What are you, Rambo?
If you're involved in a questionable shoot, you're going to get raked over the coals. Even in a good shoot expect civil litigation on the part of the lead-recipient.
Good friend of my wife's family is a Deputy in Yuma, AZ. I went on a number of ride alongs with him when I was in the Corps there. One night, during a motorcycle gathering, two motorcyclists both with female passengers collided head-on on a two-lane highway. We were first on scene, and it was a gruesome mess. I was instructed to don a reflective vest, put down some flares and start turning traffic around. It was after dark, and I had a 4Dcell mag light. I was a Marine Air Traffic Controller at the time, and telling cars to turn around on a highway isn't exactly rocket science.
In the resulting aftermath, the two sides were after each other in a big way. Several of the people lost limbs, fingers, feet, hands. The lawyers were trying to get blame placed on the other parties. One side (losing side ultimately) decided that the Sheriff's office had wrongly placed blame in the ticket. Part of the argument was that I was employed, as a "civilian" ride along, to direct traffic. They even called into question my choice in flashlight.
Lawyers will think of any little thing to prove thier side.
The second part of your original question bears some merit for sure. Are you the only person who experiences problems with that specific ammo or not....
Again there are more important things to worry about. Choose ammo that funcitons properly in your sd guns and never look back.
If you're in court they are going to pick apart every little detail no matter what. Custom +p+ hollowpoint handloads of death?
Well, you were just looking to kill someone, weren't you?
FMJ milspec ball ammo?
What are you, Rambo?
If you're involved in a questionable shoot, you're going to get raked over the coals. Even in a good shoot expect civil litigation on the part of the lead-recipient.
Good friend of my wife's family is a Deputy in Yuma, AZ. I went on a number of ride alongs with him when I was in the Corps there. One night, during a motorcycle gathering, two motorcyclists both with female passengers collided head-on on a two-lane highway. We were first on scene, and it was a gruesome mess. I was instructed to don a reflective vest, put down some flares and start turning traffic around. It was after dark, and I had a 4Dcell mag light. I was a Marine Air Traffic Controller at the time, and telling cars to turn around on a highway isn't exactly rocket science.
In the resulting aftermath, the two sides were after each other in a big way. Several of the people lost limbs, fingers, feet, hands. The lawyers were trying to get blame placed on the other parties. One side (losing side ultimately) decided that the Sheriff's office had wrongly placed blame in the ticket. Part of the argument was that I was employed, as a "civilian" ride along, to direct traffic. They even called into question my choice in flashlight.
Lawyers will think of any little thing to prove thier side.
The second part of your original question bears some merit for sure. Are you the only person who experiences problems with that specific ammo or not....
Im a fan of it.
same boring postol with same ammo as state LEOs in my area as my bedside gun.
It shoots great, is reliable, I wont miss it when it get taken after a shooting, and its always good to have the same exact defense as the fine state troopers who protect us from evil-doers..
IMHO.
same boring postol with same ammo as state LEOs in my area as my bedside gun.
It shoots great, is reliable, I wont miss it when it get taken after a shooting, and its always good to have the same exact defense as the fine state troopers who protect us from evil-doers..
IMHO.
ADKWOODSMAN
Member
Yes, NYSSP now carries the .45 Gap. I was talking with a trooper this past month, he confirmed it.
waffentomas
Member
Fish was carrying the incredibly lethal 10mm Federal 180 Hydra shok, moving at a blistering 1050fps.
I run into a lot of local cops in my line of work, but next time I see a trooper, I'll ask.
Tom
I run into a lot of local cops in my line of work, but next time I see a trooper, I'll ask.
Tom
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