Amtrak - common carrier? Special exemptions?

[Cellar Dweller]

Taking a Logistics class - "common carriers" have 4 obligations:

1. must ship anything presented (as long as it is a legal product)
2. without discrimination
3. must deliver (rather than, I suppose, keeping or diverting products)
4. charge a reasonable rate

Railroads are common carriers (especially Amtrak, because it has a monopoly on interstate passenger travel by rail), yet all firearms/ammo/parts are banned by Amtrak. No CCW, no carry-ons, no stowing in a baggage car, no broken-down "machine parts." It has been proposed (several times) that TSA do passenger and baggage checks, which would virtually eliminate the "do so at your own risk with heavy penalties" option that currently exists.

Since Amtrak is government-operated, you could argue that the Fed bans exist for courthouses, military bases, Fed buildings, etc. AND you are taking Amtrak by choice, unlike, say, a subpoena where you are obligated to show up. You can't argue the constitutionality of a search by TSA (gov't-on-gov't)or Amtrak (the business makes the rules), unlike air. However, this violates three of the four obligations and, as usual, FedGov law conflicts with itself.

Either Amtrak should be broken up (good/bad consequences of course) or firearms should be allowed. Thoughts?

 

[Pilgrim]

I've ridden Amtrak several times. "Don't ask, don't tell."

Pilgrim

 

[fairfax1]

Does anyone know what are the actual penalties for carrying on Amtrak are (assuming you are in compliance with state law)? Is their policy actually backed up by federal law?

There is no easy way for Amtrak to start screening bags if they wanted to. Last time I took the train the "station" was nothing more than a gravel parking lot and a 6x6 concert slab by the track.

 

[Soybomb]

I've read several amtrak discussions here and I've never really seen much law cited in them. It'd be worth looking at WT's post in http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=58600 and reading the GCA for that section.

 

[Cellar Dweller]

Airlines, in general, are "common carriers engaged in interstate transport," yet one can ship firearms "presented to the operator," i.e. placed in baggage. UPS and FedEx, common carriers, have to ship but can make certain conditions, i.e. overnighting handguns. USPS is a common carrier, therefore they should ship firearms from anyone to a dealer or manufacturer, not just from dealers and manufacturers.

From GCA '68: (no exceptions stated for Amtrak or USPS)

...except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

From Amtrak's site:

Prohibited Items

The following kinds of items are prohibited as both checked and carry-on baggage:

Any type of gun, firearm, ammunition, explosives, or weapon.
Incendiaries, including flammable gases, liquids and fuels.
Large, sharp objects such as axes, ice picks and swords.
Corrosive or dangerous chemicals or materials, such as liquid bleach, tear gas, mace, radioactive and harmful bacteriological materials.
Batteries with acid that can spill or leak (except those batteries used in motorized wheelchairs or similar devices for mobility-impaired passengers).
Club-like items, such as billy clubs and nightsticks.
Fragile and/or valuable items, including but not limited to electronic equipment. (Laptop computers and handheld devices may be carried onboard; however, Amtrak accepts no liability for damage.)
Animals (except service animals).
Oversized and/or overweight items.
Please note: This is not an exhaustive list. Any item similar to those listed, even if not specifically mentioned here, is prohibited from being carried onboard or checked as baggage.

Since an alternative exists for ground transport, I'll leave USPS off the hook for now - but there is no alternative for rail. BTW, Greyhound is a common carrier, yet also prohibits firearms and ammunition, and they are a private entity...therefore violating the law. Peter Pan Bus Lines, interstate (mostly New England), only lists animals as prohibited. Food for thought...

 

[Cellar Dweller]

I'm trying to decide if there's enough "there" there to do a project or term paper down the line (or a Master's Thesis)

 

[nobody_special]

This might be a good avenue for a suitable lawsuit to broaden the scope of the RKBA...

 

[kingpin008]

I travel cross-country on trains & buses alot (hate to fly) and I'd definetly be willing to write some letters if there was ever a letter-campaign to work on.

 

[Zoogster]

Actualy this sounds like the perfect storm to create high security for train travel. Almost too perfect. As in almost a set up for funding.
Without screening, yet creating a "gun free (and other weapons)" and limited security, it is probably the most vulnerable carrier to armed attack. This is so appearant that I would not be surprised if some are hoping for just that to get federal Homeland Security funding to pay for screening equipment.

 

[wdlsguy]

Taking a Logistics class - "common carriers" have 4 obligations:

1. must ship anything presented (as long as it is a legal product)

This is news to me. Where is this spelled out?

USPS is a common carrier, therefore they should ship firearms from anyone to a dealer or manufacturer

USPS will do this with rifles and shotguns. They can't do this with handguns because of 18 USC 1715.

 

[Cellar Dweller]

A spot of research...

This is news to me. Where is this spelled out?

FWIW, the textbook specifies that the obligation dates back to English common law. Found this tidbit though:

Between 18 USC 922 and 18 USC 926, no common carrier can ban personal firearms/ammo in baggage (or otherwise presented to the pilot, captain, conductor or operator) nor can they refuse shipment to a licensee (and somewhere there's an exemption for the licensee to send it back...like gunsmiths or a manufacturer's return for warranty work). Therefore 18 USC 1715 should be void...and Amtrak and USPS are in violation.

At least since 1/1996, Amtrak is no longer considered a FedGov entity. Didn't know that, thought it still was, and efforts to shut down government funding made it seem like a "branch" of FedGov.

 

[EOD Guy]

USPS is a common carrier, therefore they should ship firearms from anyone to a dealer or manufacturer, not just from dealers and manufacturers.

I have checked with the Department of Transportation and the USPS is not a common carrier under the law.