An AR Rifle Conundrum...

Gun-Reck

Gun-Reck

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Started looking at the Ruger SFAR 20" .308, with the 10-round magazine.

But loaded, and adding A4 mil-spec sights or a LPVO, it started to get heavy.

Compared to my 8-round M1 Rifle, it's from around a pound lighter with the aperture sights, to almost even with the LPVO.

So started looking at the Ruger AR-556 MPR 18" 5.56 NATO.

Same basic rifle, a half pound lighter (not counting the lighter ammo in a 10-round magazine), and around $150 less expensive.

Add to that the 7.62 NATO/.308 would be a new cartridge for me, requiring ammo purchase, whereas the 5.56 NATO and M2 ball are already in the house.

And the scoped .270Win. bolt rifle shoots very well out to 600 yards.

Have an itch for an AR rifle, though.

Would have been very happy with an A2 H-bar, and the .308, shoe-horned into the AR-15 platform, is very enticing.

Your thoughts appreciated.
 
What AR-15 based rifle is chambered for .308 or will fit into the mag well? Or the upper on the lower?

What I like about the AR-15/10 style rifles is the ability to swap uppers and have a completely new rifle.

People forget that all those nifty accessories add up when put on their guns. You just have to prioritize what you want and how it's going to effect the overall weight.
 
What do you envision doing with it where weight becomes an issue? My AR-10 wears a bipod for when I shoot it - but I don’t hunt with it.

I just picked up a Radical Firearms RF-15 in 7.62x39. I have tons of ammo, and one AK and a Ruger American Ranch to shoot it. The downside is new magazines. But with the rifle at $400, I don’t mind so much.
 
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So, you already stock .556/ but don't yet have an AR platform rifle?

If thats case, I vote for getting a basic PSA Freedom 15- they regularly go on sale for around $400. Odds are, it'll do everything you want well enough out of the box, but can always be modded or replaced with something fancier later if you get the full AR bug.
 
Yeah, .308 ARs are just plain heavy. To me they are, but I suppose heavy is relative.

Still, what do you want? Something light and nimble or something that packs a bit more of a punch? I was wild about ARs for a long time. Still am, but in many situations, reality kinda hits and you realize there are tools better suited to the job, when you realize that you have another mile to go and that rifle is getting heavy.
 
The "AR-10 family" of rifles are different birds than the "stock" AR.

It's more than the longer magwell (right at 6-8mm), the upper is nearer to 1.5 diameter than 1" in stock AR.

There are "long frame" AR with AR diameter uppers out there, but they are not common.

Now, the true "lego" AR is the AR-15 family. Virtually all of the bits are fit to one set of dimensions. So, as long as the "bits" are built to that standard, they all pretty much drop in.

In the "AR-10" family there were (were being the operative word) two different standards out there. And, you had to know which your specific build adhered to. Now, there are several groups of "long frame" (meaning the magwell typically, but also the length of the bolt run on the lower, too).

This is part of the "why" of all the calibers out there, too. There is a dizzying array of rounds based roughly on the larges case head that will fit a standard AR-15 bolt, and around 45mm long--the difference then being in what the neck is brought down to.

The AR-10 family can fit any of the rounds of the case dimensions of the 308/762nato family.

This can explain why one "AR" might be several pounds heavier than another "AR"--they are likely not the same beast at all.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
So, you already stock .556/ but don't yet have an AR platform rifle?

If thats case, I vote for getting a basic PSA Freedom 15- they regularly go on sale for around $400. Odds are, it'll do everything you want well enough out of the box, but can always be modded or replaced with something fancier later if you get the full AR bug.
Click to expand...

Mini-14 Ranch, from way back. Then the mother-ship upgraded it to a 580-Series.

So, yes, that ammo is not an issue.

Also looking for a higher-end finished product, and the MPR has a good level, including the two-stage trigger.

The PSA 20" CHF 1:7 A2 Rifle Length 5.56 NATO Premium AR-15 Upper Assembly was also a consideration, mated to a RUGER AR-556 LOWER ELITE.
 
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Mk-211 said:
What AR-15 based rifle is chambered for .308 or will fit into the mag well? Or the upper on the lower?

What I like about the AR-15/10 style rifles is the ability to swap uppers and have a completely new rifle.

People forget that all those nifty accessories add up when put on their guns. You just have to prioritize what you want and how it's going to effect the overall weight.
Click to expand...

The Ruger SFAR receiver and fore-end are the size of the AR-15 platform.

Think that the only difference is the longer buffer tube.

Anyways, very small and light, but still has the 20" barrel.
 
There’s two ARs sitting on the bench here, one is a AR15 with no frills at around 7 pounds. The other is a AR10 with night vision, big IR light, heavy barrel and a bipod coming in at 10 pounds heavier. One feels like a Daisy Red Rider, the other is great set up on a picnic table.
 
I got my 'lightweight' AR down to just over 6.5# unloaded...

SgLhv4cl.jpg


I built an AR-10 in .308 for my late TaeKwon-Do instructor... about as light as I could without going to esoteric (and expensive) lightweight parts... and it was over 9# with the scope. The AR-10 platform is just big...

kfb2uSMl.jpg
 
They are quite expensive, but a POF rogue is a very similar concept to the ruger SFAR, a 308 rifle in an AR15 size format. They advertise the 16” version to be 5.9 lbs without optic.

CapnMac said:
The "AR-10 family" of rifles are different birds than the "stock" AR.

It's more than the longer magwell (right at 6-8mm), the upper is nearer to 1.5 diameter than 1" in stock AR.

There are "long frame" AR with AR diameter uppers out there, but they are not common.

Now, the true "lego" AR is the AR-15 family. Virtually all of the bits are fit to one set of dimensions. So, as long as the "bits" are built to that standard, they all pretty much drop in.

In the "AR-10" family there were (were being the operative word) two different standards out there. And, you had to know which your specific build adhered to. Now, there are several groups of "long frame" (meaning the magwell typically, but also the length of the bolt run on the lower, too).

This is part of the "why" of all the calibers out there, too. There is a dizzying array of rounds based roughly on the larges case head that will fit a standard AR-15 bolt, and around 45mm long--the difference then being in what the neck is brought down to.

The AR-10 family can fit any of the rounds of the case dimensions of the 308/762nato family.

This can explain why one "AR" might be several pounds heavier than another "AR"--they are likely not the same beast at all.
Click to expand...

A ruger SFAR is not an AR10. It is much smaller and lighter.
 
SFAR with a .277 Fury barrel! 22" pencil barrel!
Ill admit I thought this one thru a few times, Im probably going to go 6.5CM or 7-08 when I can get the stuff to build. I THINK that would be an AR I liked to shoot, well see tho.

The lightest AR ive built used a composite upper/lower and a pencil barrel ran 5lbs 9oz I think. Stuck a older Tasco 1-3x on it in cheap aluminum rings and it was still well under 7lbs.
 
As much as one would like to think they could build a lighter weight version, if you put an AR side by side against a bolt rifle, there’s just a whole lot of metal there. I had an expensive custom AR in an exotic caliber built specifically for deer hunting. Extremely accurate. Hard hitting. But carrying around the extra size and weight grew old in a hurry
 
Gun-Reck said:
Started looking at the Ruger SFAR 20" .308, with the 10-round magazine.

But loaded, and adding A4 mil-spec sights or a LPVO, it started to get heavy.

Compared to my 8-round M1 Rifle, it's from around a pound lighter with the aperture sights, to almost even with the LPVO.

So started looking at the Ruger AR-556 MPR 18" 5.56 NATO.

Same basic rifle, a half pound lighter (not counting the lighter ammo in a 10-round magazine), and around $150 less expensive.

Add to that the 7.62 NATO/.308 would be a new cartridge for me, requiring ammo purchase, whereas the 5.56 NATO and M2 ball are already in the house.

And the scoped .270Win. bolt rifle shoots very well out to 600 yards.

Have an itch for an AR rifle, though.

Would have been very happy with an A2 H-bar, and the .308, shoe-horned into the AR-15 platform, is very enticing.

Your thoughts appreciated.
Click to expand...
Since I got into ARs, I've only bought one. Since that one, I've assembled dozens. Over the years of figuring out what I think is important and developing a preference for certain parts, I can say that when I put an Ar together, it's gonna weight 7 to 7.5 lbs, before I start adding stuff. What I add is the major reason for the varying weights among my ARs. Consequently, my ARs range in weight from about 8lbs to over 10lbs.

Now, if you take a plain Jane bolt gun you're starting out with a lot less weight. Well, you can anyway. I've recently gotten onto a Ruger American Ranch rifle kick.Out of the box, they weigh just over 6lbs. My .308 Predator weighs just over 7.5lbs with a 4-16x optic on it.

I guess my point is this. If I knew 30 years ago, what I know now, I would have done things differently. If I wanted a .308, the smart thing to do is get a bolt gun. They are typically more accurate and require much less maintenance at a fraction of the cost.

If after having a .308 bolt gun, you decide that you need a "force multiplier," for whatever reason, then an AR would be the next logical step.

Of course, if you just want an AR in .308 without a need to fill, quit worrying about the weight and just take it for what it is and accept the price of admittance.
 
someguy2800 said:
A ruger SFAR is not an AR10. It is much smaller and lighter.
Click to expand...
Has to be at least 14mm longer in the magwell. COAL for 308/7.62nato is 2.800" or 71.1mm; 5.56nato is 2.56" or 57.40mm. They followed the POF example of using a 25mm diameter upper, so AR-15 diameter BCG will fit, they just want to be longer to span the magwell.

So, yes, the SFAR are shorter, as the AR-10 was meant to have a 528mm (20.8") "battle rifle" barrel, rather than the carbine length ones available for the SFAR.

This part of why the 308-sized "AR" family is such a mess as to which standard is standard.

It's not a knock on the makers, it just is what it is. It's rather like how all the proprietary magazines are similar but different.
 
CapnMac said:
Has to be at least 14mm longer in the magwell. COAL for 308/7.62nato is 2.800" or 71.1mm; 5.56nato is 2.56" or 57.40mm. They followed the POF example of using a 25mm diameter upper, so AR-15 diameter BCG will fit, they just want to be longer to span the magwell.

So, yes, the SFAR are shorter, as the AR-10 was meant to have a 528mm (20.8") "battle rifle" barrel, rather than the carbine length ones available for the SFAR.

This part of why the 308-sized "AR" family is such a mess as to which standard is standard.

It's not a knock on the makers, it just is what it is. It's rather like how all the proprietary magazines are similar but different.
Click to expand...

5.56 is 2.3” long. The magwell is longer and wider of course but they did not add it to the total length of the receiver. Both the POF and SFAR shift the proportions around by moving the location of the magwell and trigger group compared to an AR15. The total length of the reciever is basically the same as an ar15. They also don’t have the big overhang in the rear over the grip that an AR10 has. Also by keeping the AR15 bolt carrier diameter that means the centerline of the bore is also the same height over the grip. My biggest complaint of AR10’s is that they are so top heavy fealing because they have so much weight and height over the grip. If I handed you a POF or an SFAR in the dark you wouldn’t be able to tell it’s not an AR15 until you felt around and found the big magwell. They both did a really good job on it.
 
Gun-Reck said:
The PSA 20" CHF 1:7 A2 Rifle Length 5.56 NATO Premium AR-15 Upper Assembly was also a consideration, mated to a RUGER AR-556 LOWER ELITE.
Click to expand...

Really like this setup - except for the 1:7 twist, which will scatter all the 55 gr. ammo I have.

Which would presume expensive heavy weight ammo and optic... for what I consider basically a 200 yard cartridge.

So the 18.5" Mini-14 is fine for that.

The Ruger 18" AR-556 MPR has a 1:8 twist, which would work.

And the 20" SFAR's 7.62 NATO round is the same price as the heavy 5.56 NATO, but good for 600 yards, so the optic would be warranted.
 
TFB is a promotional outlet, they make $$ from advertising. Nothing wrong with making money, just be wary of interpreting sponsored puff pieces as reviews.
 
HKGuns said:
TFB is a promotional outlet, they make $$ from advertising. Nothing wrong with making money, just be wary of interpreting sponsored puff pieces as reviews.
Click to expand...

Was posted mainly for the description, which is very good.

The review, and complaints, are regarding the 16" mid-length rifle, not the 20" full length, which is different in both gas-system and hand-guard.
 
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