Another keyboard commando heard from

[Monkeyleg]

Where do these people come from?

Below is an exchange between some KBC and me. It all started when I sent out an email alert for Firearms Training Associates kubaton course.

*******
Tom's email:

on 1/14/07 9:46 PM, tom@____ wrote:

> So, since Doyle got reelected, we are just going to put
> our tail between our legs, and literally kick, scream and
> poke sticks at people?
>
> Try a kubaton on a gangster in Milwaukee.
>
> And yes, I am trained in martial arts.
>
> I am very disappointed in this organization, and the fact
> that you never responded to my email about the concealed
> carry legislation post-election.
>
> I donated to the Green campaign, but this is pathetic.
> It makes your organization seem like some goofy martial
> arts/ wannabe military group, instead of a true lobbying
> effort.
>
> Are you trying to legalize the Kubaton?
>
> Keep your eye on the ball.

********

My reply:



Tom, I send out emails on behalf of firearms trainers all the time. In exchange, they help the WCCA/WCCM raise money that we devote to printing of literature, tables at gun shows, rallies, and more.

More importantly, instructors like those from Firearms Training Associates as well as AACFI have helped our political action committee raise tens of thousands of dollars for real pro-gun, pro-concealed carry candidates over the last 5+ years. Last year alone, we raised over $32,000. $10,000 of that went to Mark Green's campaign.

Did you help in any of these efforts?

We have hundreds of volunteers who have devoted literally thousands of hours to our cause. Our best volunteers can be counted upon to get a call from me on Thursday night, asking if they could please drive to LaCrosse or Shawano, and spend three days helping other volunteers work the gun show tables.

These folks don't get paid a dime. The WCCA pays for their transportation and their cheap motels, but that's it.

I just did a quick check of our volunteer email database, and didn't find your address in there. That tells me that you haven't done one thing to help out.

But you somehow think that it's your right and privelege to criticize the work that hundreds of others have been doing for over five years.

If you want to criticize, you're welcome to do so. But first I'd like to see some action.

We're having a meeting on January 27th at the HJ's hotel/motel in Oshkosh. The HJ's is located right on Highway 21 just off the Highway 41 exit (exit #119). The meeting is in the upstairs conference room, and starts at 10 am.

If you're willing to do more than just "talk the talk," you're very much welcome to attend and offer any suggestions you might have.

If you show up, I'll know that you're serious about your commitment to our rights. If you don't, then you will have proven how few rounds you're willing to go in this fight.

Yours truly,
Dick Baker
Treasurer, WCCA


********

The original email:

>
>
> On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:56:48 -0800
> Dick Baker <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> Dear fellow gun owner:
>>
>> Firearms Training Associates is having a self defense and
>> kubaton course.
>> Those who took this course the last time had nothing but
>> great things to say
>> about it. They were amazed at how effective even simple
>> objects could be as
>> weapons.
>>
>> Ever since the WCCA was formed, Firearms Training
>> Associates has been a
>> tremendous supporter, and has helped us raise thousands
>> and thousands of
>> dollars for our political action committee.
>>
>> So, by taking this course, you'll not only learn some
>> extremely valuable
>> defense techniques, but you'll also be helping the
>> concealed carry cause.
>>
>> Details are below.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> The Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association
>>
>>
>> Firearms Training Associates is pleased to announce a
>> Basic Self Defense and
>> Introduction to Kubaton Course will be offered at the
>> Saukville Legion Hall,
>> located at 601 West Dekora Street, Saukville, Wisconsin
>> 53080.

 

[WinchesterAA]

Kubaton course.. I could go for that.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Winchester, I didn't take the course. But people who did said it was great. This is one of Massad Ayoob's classes. One of the people who took the course said that they got down to how to use a pen as a weapon.

BTW, it didn't take long for the Keyboard Commando to reply. I know this doesn't interest the average THR member but, for those who run state gun groups, these sorts of emails must sound familiar:

*******************

on 1/14/07 11:06 PM, tom@____ wrote:

> You gave 10 grand to Mark Greens campaign?
> Now I know why this effort has no teeth.
>
> Like I said, I gave DIRECTLY to the Green campaign, and I
> didn't add, to the NRA.
>
> If you think I would drive to OSHKOSH to argue with you
> about Kubaton courses, you have another thing coming.
>
> You really don't know who you are dealing with here.
>
> Regarding fundraising. An associate of mine recently
> gathered $32,000 for the kitchen of our local school.
> Three times what you raised for the Green campaign.
> This same individual hosted a private party to support the
> campaign of Scott Walker.
>
> I am VERY dedicated to this effort, and have MANY good
> ideas about fundraising.
>
> Instead of turning an ally into an enemy, you might want
> to consider my comments validity, instead of questioning
> my volunteerism.
>
> Do you really think that pamphlets at gun shows are
> changing minds, or preaching to the converted?
> I would sincerely posit that if you have volunteers
> spending THOUSANDS of hours on this effort, and you raised
> $32,000, something is not going as it should.
>
> I will do what I can to help the effort, but don't attack
> me by saying I am not doing anything, just because I have
> not personally volunteered for your organization.
>
> Further, I emailed you recently regarding a court
> challenge of the constitutionality of our states gun laws.
> This is an example of a real world effort that could make
> a substantial difference in the interpretation of our
> state constitution.
>
> Additionally, I am in touch with folks at the State
> department of regulation and licensing, who interpret
> state code pertaining to armed security and other
> individuals.
>
> The last thing that you should do at this stage is
> alienate your supporters.
>

*******

My reply:

Look, Tom. I have no idea whatsoever about who you are or what you have or have not done.

All I know is what I have done, and what "my" volunteers have done. And I'm very proud of them. They've done an enormous amount of work, and they've been recognized by the leaders in Madison for their efforts.

And so have I. Thanks to all the work that WCCA volunteers have done, I've been invited to sit down with the authors and suggest ideas as to what the new concealed carry bill should do. There's only been a few people at those meetings, and you weren't there.

If the WCCA's efforts had no teeth, our presence would not have been welcomed.

Thank you for contributing directly to Green's campaign. If more people had done so, he could have won.

As for the Oshkosh meeting, I'm not inviting you there to argue. I've invited everyone on our email list to come and discuss ideas. I've said again and again that every idea will be on the table.

"You really don't know who you are dealing with here."

No, I don't. I have no idea who you are. If you'd like to go into some degree of detail, perhaps we could figure out how your talents and contacts can benefit everyone.

" Regarding fundraising. An associate of mine recently
gathered $32,000 for the kitchen of our local school.
Three times what you raised for the Green campaign.
This same individual hosted a private party to support the
campaign of Scott Walker."

That's fantastic. We could use a person like your associate in our group.

"Additionally, I am in touch with folks at the State
department of regulation and licensing, who interpret
state code pertaining to armed security and other
individuals."

If you have those kinds of contacts, we could definitely use your help.

I'm in daily or weekly contact with the legal counsel for the State Ethics board, the legal counsel for the State Elections Board, the head auditor for the State Elections Board, the senior members of the Republican leaders of the state legislature, key pro-gun Democrat legislators, senior members of the National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action, the leadership of pro-gun groups from other midwestern states, reporters from just about every newspaper in the state, and hosts of various talk radio shows from around the state.

Given that I'm self-employed, the time involved in making or returning these phone calls costs me money. In some years, like 2005, it cost me a lot of money.

"Further, I emailed you recently regarding a court
challenge of the constitutionality of our states gun laws.
This is an example of a real world effort that could make
a substantial difference in the interpretation of our
state constitution."

I get dozens of emails every day on concealed carry. Sometimes hundreds. If I failed to respond to yours, please accept my apology. But please also do not expect our state supreme court to throw us a Hail-Mary pass. The Fisher case was one of the best we've had since Hamdan, and it went down in flames.

"The last thing that you should do at this stage is
alienate your supporters."

I don't alienate supporters. I replied to an email that was hostile in its tone, and responded accordingly.

If I sound hostile, it's because it's 1:50 am, and I'm still responding to emails. All at no cost to concealed carry supporters. But you can bet your bottom dollar that I'm going to get an earful from my wife about keeping her awake responding to these emails. That's nothing new, though. It's been the case for over five years.

The January 27th meeting invitation is still open to you. There will be _no_ hostile arguments. This meeting will be open to everyone who has a good idea. All ideas will be discussed. And there will be _no_ disruptions. Anyone who is not courteous to fellow attendees will be escorted from the room.

Yours truly,
Dick Baker
Treasurer, WCCA

 

[SomeKid]

Monkey,

I feel your pain bud. I always find it funny how some unknown will randomly appear and profess to have done SO much. And how they are deserving of bootlicking. Of course, when it comes to time to work, their boots are nowehere to be seen.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Somekid, it's not pain. It's a sort of perverted amusement.

I particularly love this line: "You really don't know who you are dealing with here."

Well, I'm shaking. He's in contact with the Board of Regulation and Licensing. I don't have their 800 number memorized, but I've been in fairly constant contact with them as well.

Notice, too, that it wasn't the KBC (key board commando) who raised $32K for a new kitchen for the local school. It was "an associate."

Well, shoot. I have "associates" who've raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for candidates. They're not friends of mine, but they are "associates."

I don't know why I bother posting these sort of things, except that they either annoy me late at night, amuse me, or both.

My guess is that this guy is a security guard/mall ninja who sent $10 to Mark Green's campaign.

And I don't consider $32K to be chump change. Thanks to Massad Ayoob, and the people from Firearms Training Associates and AACFI, we were able to make significant contributions.

That $10K to Mark Green's campaign? That was a lot more money than most other groups gave to either Doyle or Green's campaign.

I'm proud of what the WCCA volunteers have accomplished.

It's been a discouraging few months for those volunteers. So I want to let those volunteers who are reading this thread know this: your work over the past five years has made the WCCA a real player in this fight. We have more clout in Madison on the CCW issue than any other gun group in the state.

I was invited to represent you at a small meeting to discuss what the 2005 concealed carry bill should contain. Does anyone realize how big an accomplishment that is? And I delivered every suggestion that WCCA volunteers had offered. Some where accepted, and some rejected.

But how often do you get a voice in legislation?

We all got it because we proved ourselves. We proved ourselves by swamping the Capitol with hand-written postcards that our volunteers helped people address to their legislators. We proved ourselves by outnumbering our opponents 20:1 or more at hearings. And we proved ourselves by helping to raise contributions to candidates.

Those contributions will not be forgotten, even though we lost in November.

Your work, your hours, have not gone unrecognized in Madison. The WCCA has more clout than any other gun group in the state when it comes to concealed carry.

How often does one person be able to say that he had some profound effect on society?

Not often.

With your continued efforts, you will be able to one day say that you helped change the society in Wisconsin for the better, and did what many people just years ago said was impossible.

As for this keyboard commando? All he'll be able to say is that he knew a guy who knew a guy who helped raise $32K to build a new kitchen in a school someplace.

Yippee.

 

[Trip20]

If this hot shot does not show up at the meeting we'll be able to draw a fairly accurate conclusion.

Take it with a grain of salt.

I must admit it's amusing, but you need to get some sleep, pal.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Trip20, I suffer from insomnia, so it's more enjoyable for me to sit on this computer than it is to lie in bed staring at the ceiling.

As anyone who's worked a gun show table for the WCCA will attest, there's a ton of wacko's out there.

 

[Strings]

Oh yeah... LOTS of weirdos!

Ya know dick, maybe we should run a tally at the next show: count how many weirdos responses we get, then compare to the show attendance. Might be interesting...

 

[AJ Dual]

First order of business, get Dick some Ambien.

 

[Monkeyleg]

AJ, I've had my doctor prescribe all of the latest sleep aid drugs. None of them work.

I've done triple doses of Ambien, and still was wide awake.

The last time I had a colinoscopy, they gave me a triple dose of Twilight. The doctor couldn't believe that I was fully conscious and talking to him the entire time. He said that dose should have put me out cold for at least a day.

Anyway. Strings is right. Here on THR, we're all pretty much what the rest of the public would regard as normal, middle-class people. (Well, with the exception of Strings, of course ).

Spend a few days working tables at a gun show, though, and you'll find some people who are a few crayons short of the full set of Crayolas.

I've had people ask me about that: what about the people who can pass the background checks, but aren't exactly the kind of people you'd like to see carrying?

My reply is that most of "those" people wouldn't make it through the classroom portion of the testing. They're going to screw up something.

A case in point: at a gun show a couple of years ago, I was helping an older man write a postcard to his state legislators.

When he had written his postcards, I told him that he needed to put his name and address on the postcards.

"I don't remember my address," he said.

"Did you just move recently," I asked.

"Well, yeah, about two years ago."

I then asked if he had his wallet on him, which he did. I then asked if his drivers license was in the wallet, which it was. And I then asked him to show it to me.

"Is this address on your drivers license your current address, sir?"

"Well, damn, that's it!" he said (with no small amount of surprise).

Sigh....

 

[Demiurge]

:banghead: