Another problem with factory ammunition

[gamestalker]

My Son bought a new 700 and 4 boxes of factory to shoot. Two boxes were Win. and 2 were Rem.. A lot of it from all 4 boxes are presenting problems with chambering and extraction. Some are even so bad that it take a lot effort to get the bolt open after firing. No high pressure signs, other than very flat primers on the ones that were really difficult to extract. The thing about this circumstance is it has happened with 3 different new 700s over the last 5 years, and only with factory ammunition. The rifle was cleaned well before firing it. I've encountered this event with two 7mm rem. magnums and one .270 win., all were 700s. The two 7mm rifles have never had this problem since hand loading for them, and the same with the .270. I saved a few rounds of both brands and pulled the bullets to see if I could find the issue. Both brands measured differently just above the head, up to .002" larger on some, and powder charges had a spread of up to 6.3 grains from the lightest powder charge, to the highest. I don't shoot factory but once every blue moon, so I don't know if this is a common problem. I did some searching and discovered a lot more recalls on factory ammunition than I was prepared for.

 

[oneounceload]

very flat primers on the ones that were really difficult to extract.

Sounds like high pressure to me

 

[suzukisam]

roll your own man! them 700s... well I won't start in on that

 

[bloominonion]

Never had an issue with factory ammo on my Rem 700 30-06, but it definitely likes my reloads more!

 

[FROGO207]

I have not purchased any NEW ammo since I started reloading Oh some 35 years ago. I will not count any rimfire as I still have to do that. I tell you-- I am some spoiled these days.

 

[gamestalker]

Yep, I'm thinking high pressures too! And so far as rolling my own, couldn't agree with you more. My boys just got impatient and bought those boxes before I had a chance to find the brass to get em started.
But with respect to the 700s, I love them and have a few that will probably out live me. I've noticed that the newer one's seem to have tighter tollerances than the older one's I bought back in the 1980s.

 

[cheygriz]

UIHHH...........

If you have had problems with factory ammo from BOTH Remington and Winchester, (two of the world's premier ammo makers) I'll bet you have a problem with the rifle. Rough chamber perhaps or short throat????

I would take it to a factory authorized gunsmith/repair station and have it checked out.

 

[amlevin]

I've noticed that a lot of factory ammo is loaded to speeds at or very near the max for that caliber. By extension this would indicate near or at the max for pressures.

This could yield a "stiff bolt" but not necessarily indicating an overpressure situation. New often means stiffer than "broken in".

If the case doesn't show other signs of high pressure, like extractor imprint, I would just shoot the ammo and then move into reloading.

Factory ammo is way too expensive for my taste, especially when taking the accuracy/consistency factors into consideration.

 

[gamestalker]

I don't shoot factory except as stated, once in a blue moon, and in this particular circumstance, my Son's had already bought the fatcory not knowing I had plenty of brass buried in my loading room. Looking at the factory close revealed it was the component with inconsistencies. Some of the bullets and necks were litterally smashed, apparently when they were crimped during manufacturing and were out of round and buldged above the mouth. Those were the one's that had trouble chambering. The Rem. showed some serious powder charge variations, and probaly had something to do with extractions issues. I'm thinking possible high pressures in a new gun was the culprit. Either way, problem solved since reloading for it. I took it to a friend that builds custom rifles and had him check the chamber specs. and he said it was tight, but deffinitely not tighter than SAMMI dimensions.

 

[Gadzooks Mike]

Well now, isn't this a conundrum. There's another new thread today with someone saying he never got into reloading because firearm manufacturers say it will void their warranty.

 

[suzukisam]

UIHHH...........

If you have had problems with factory ammo from BOTH Remington and Winchester, (two of the world's premier ammo makers) I'll bet you have a problem with the rifle. Rough chamber perhaps or short throat????

I would take it to a factory authorized gunsmith/repair station and have it checked out.

Okay dude no offense but that statement alone shows that you really need to learn about ammo, how it is mass produced, and what measures are in place to produce consistent ammo by the millions. they are very far from "premier" I have seen remington ammo that was missing half a bullet, that was not caught by QC in the bullet department, or in the finished cartridge department...

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Okay dude no offense but that statement alone shows that you really need to learn about ammo

I'm betting he has a chamber problem with the rifle. I had the same problem with a Rem. Model 700. The exact same ammo worked perfectly in my other guns.

 

[suzukisam]

I'm betting he has a chamber problem with the rifle.

It is very well possible, but we had a half a box of Winchester supreme ballistic silver tips, that half the box would chamber and half wouldn't and when I mic'd the cases they were way out of spec. It was for sure the ammo. All I'm saying is those two brands are far from "top of the line", much less "premier"! if his rifle has been checked by a smith than I would guess it's an ammo problem.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

we had a half a box of Winchester supreme ballistic silver tips, that half the box would chamber and half wouldn't and when I mic'd the cases they were way out of spec.

I could believe it was the ammo if this were the only instance but

4 boxes of factory to shoot. Two boxes were Win. and 2 were Rem.. A lot of it from all 4 boxes are presenting problems with chambering and extraction.

Four boxes of two different brands says chamber problem to me.

 

[suzukisam]

you could very well be correct.. I thought he said the chamber was checked though? I think it is odd that 4 boxes all had this problem? I went back and re-read the entire thread, and he makes some good arguments for the ammo being the problem. But I think I would definitely double check the chamber. But he said it was for sure not tighter than saami. How about the throat? did you check to make sure your bullets aren't somehow seating on the lands or something like that? I know the new 700s are supposed to have heavy freebore? Have you mic'd a fired case to see if anything looks outta spec? sometimes checking a fire formed case can give you a clue.

 

[[email protected]]

What gamestalker posted in post # 9 along with what some of my shooting buddies have said and the Fed recall has me wondering what has happened to quality control. Could it be that companies are trying too hard to get and stay caught up with demand that more is getting by quality control. Im not trying to bash anyone because I think it is amazing that a company can mass produce such a large quanity of ammo that most often goes bang and is reasonably accurate.
From a reloaders prospective in my expierence flatten primers is not a good measurment of over pressure. I saw that you said that you cleaned the rifle. I had a similar problem out of a like new ruger m77 that I bought. I knew the gun and owner before I bought it and knew that fewer than a half of box of shells were fried throught it. I cleaned the gun really well before I shot it as it has not been cleaned before. What I failed to do was to remove all the oil from the chamber. I had erratic bolt feel and case stretching. Im not really sure why, but it seemed the the case was not expanding enough to "grip" the chamber due to the oil.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

I have only had this problem happen with one production rifle using production ammo. It was a Remington Model 700 BDL-DM in 7mm/08. Bolt would not close on a loaded round of factory ammo. The same ammo worked great in a Remington Model 7.