Another Texan Defends His Neighbor

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Junyo,

I believe you missed the point with regards to Luke 11:21.

Why would the attributes of strength and arms be extolled were not for the ability to use them to protect your stuff?

With regards to forgiveness, I respectfully disagree with you as to when it should be employed. When the cretin tries to steal from me, my forgiving him does not mean that I should allow the theft to happen.

I can forgive the thief whose earthly body is cooling on the lawn for that which he tried to perpetrate.
 
I will do my best to perferate you with prejudice.--Guillermo

Thanks Guillermo. You just gave the world the newest cool word! LOL I love it!:)

per·fo·rate (pûrf-rt)
v. per·fo·rat·ed, per·fo·rat·ing, per·fo·rates
v.tr.
1. To pierce, punch, or bore a hole or holes in; penetrate.
2. To pierce or stamp with rows of holes, as those between postage stamps, to allow easy separation.
v.intr.
To pass into or through something.
adj. (pûrfr-t, -f-rt)
Having been perforated.


Perforate you with prejudice.
To Perforate with prejudice
To Get Perforated

the Perforator

How much Perforation is Perfect Perforation?

The Perforator [a new TV series?]

The Perforator [a new book?]

I was perforating CANS OF CHILI yesterday. :evil:

PISTOL = a high velocity propulsion device designed to perforate, peferable to philosophical approaches to conflict resolution in some situtations.

One might prefer to perforate a perpetrator, or prefer to perambulate around in a feeling of utter helplessness.


/
 
Retiree Indicted



http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?s=8785666

AUSTIN, Texas (KXAN) -- Tom Oakes of Kingsland was booked early Tuesday morning and made bond at 9 a.m.

The 64-year-old Hill Country man will be charged with assault with a deadly weapon, after firing on a car that he suspected was involved in burglarizing his neighbor's home.

Oakes opened fire with a .45-caliber pistol on July 30 outside a home on River Oaks Drive and an arrest warrant has been filed for Aggravated Assault with a Deadly Weapon.

One of the shots struck Casey Rowe in the back of the neck, and he remains in critical condition on life support at an Austin hospital.

As stated by Llano District Attorney, Sam Oatman, "Even though the investigation continues, there is sufficient evidence for a warrant. Oakes' attorney, Jim Wheat, of San Antonio has promised to surrender his client Tuesday morning, August 5, 2008, at the Llano Sheriff's Office. Since there is no evidence Oakes is a flight risk, with no criminal record, those arrangements were made. Oakes will be booked for the offense and will have to make a bond as set by the Justice of the Peace at the time of his surrender."

"As for as the incident that initiated the shooting, this is also under investigation. Even though not complete, the investigation indicates that warrants will be forthcoming but these individuals will not be revealed until that time."

Wheat said on Friday that his client feared for his life when he shot at the car. He had confronted three men inside the car moments earlier in the driveway of his neighbor's home.

A short time later, the car showed up at a local hospital and Rowe was flown to Austin for treatment. The driver of that car, Matthew Winger, 28, was later arrested for an outstanding warrant related to a theft charge.

Authorities have found the second man in the car, Michael Jeffers, who also goes by Mike Jones. He has been questioned and released.

Wheat said that his client, who is a retiree, had no intentions of shooting anyone, but when he got about 30 feet from his neighbor's carport, he could see the suspected burglars scrambling for something.

"I think he had a good idea that they had something they were reaching for down in that car," said Wheat. "We'll never know that because those guys ran away and hid all the stuff that was in the car."

"Nobody really wanted for this guy to end up this way," said Wheat. "Not the shooter, not anyone on the street, apparently not the people in the car, but they made a choice to go and steal stuff from a neighbor's house."
 
"So the argument is that we shoot everyone who steals anything, on the premise that it might, somehow, save the victim's life?" - .38 Special

How about we shoot anyone who steals anything in Texas on the premise that most Criminals are repeat offenders and a dead man can't steal anymore.
 
How about we shoot anyone who steals anything in Texas on the premise that most Criminals are repeat offenders and a dead man can't steal anymore.

Hopefully I won't ever accidentally walk off with someone's pen in Texas.
 
How about we shoot anyone who steals anything in Texas on the premise that most Criminals are repeat offenders and a dead man can't steal anymore.

Well, they used to hang 'em but it was deemed unsightly. Shooting them is much more 21st century.
 
BruceRDucer,

Glad you enjoy the word.

The Perforator might make a good comic book character. A masked fellow, festooned with cape and a giant hole-punch, patrolling the city, keeping us safe from all things unpierced.

Said metropolis will surely be most holy.

Perhaps instead of the hole punch the Perforator could use a .45.

This might be especially effective on his evil nemesis who hails from the conurbation of Orange County. Surely you have heard of the infamous 38 Special, the notorious thief of writing utensils.




Now if the Perforator would just go to Kingsland and punch a few holes in the Llano District Attorney’s case….
 
It's a very simple concept.
If you value your life don't try to steal from us.

Exactly.

And each one removed from the population, is just one less that good people have to be concerned with ( especially repeat offenders like this one ).

And who knows, other potential thieves might be learning it's dangerous business & doesn't pay when weighed against the consequences. But that's one of those things you can't measure. When a crime isn't committed ( because the "potential" BG decided it wasn't worth the risk ), how do you show that was because a previous thief got shot?

Tuckerdog1
 
Here are the Texas crime statistics from 1960 to 2006.
Here are some figures comparing the states to each other.
A quick look over the statistics for other states show that Texas, like many states, had a peak of crime in the early 90's followed by a decline; though the crime rates remain high compared to earlier times.
Overall, Texas mirrors increases and declines in crime seen throughout the country. In terms of ranking in terms of amounts of crime by population, Texas has more crime than most states.
Whatever else may be said about the laws under discussion, the statistics do not bear out the assertion that crime is reduced by those laws, either by disincentive to commit crimes or by reduction through mortality of the criminal class.
 
Hopefully I won't ever accidentally walk off with someone's pen in Texas.--.38 Special


Well, if you're going to walk off with another man's pen, you can at least expect to have your name taken down and be given 1 demerit.

A pen can make an excellent "shiv".
 
Matthew 6:19-21---Junyo


Junyo,

Your moral and ethical argument is excellent, and I agree with you when it comes to clarifying the value systems in which we operate.

I hope nobody will conclude that I'm supportive in all cases, of justification for lethal force, because that is not my intention.

(I don't think others put forth that idea explicitly either, despite their enthusiasm to rule their own roost, so to say.)

There are other factors at issue, and I will present my case, and see what you can make of it, okay?

TIME and PLACE and CONTEXT have a lot to do with it. For example, when we have the opportunity to manfully and caringly expound our spiritual values in a friendly manner, a certain atmosphere of peace and mutual respect predominates, and we are friends.

In a social atmosphere involving the breakdown of the rule of law prevails, Self-Defense means that at a certain extreme, the people are the law. It is true in a state of war, but it can also be true in a specific Home Defense situation.

----------------------------------------

Permit me to expand my argument, and perhaps yours also. Though I will openly espouse the same value system as yours (religiously) there is a great DIFFICULTY with it.

If we espouse completely, the spirituality of a Messiah, and we extend those values into every area, it becomes a DECONSTRUCTIONIST argument for carrying any weapon or harming any other Man in any way.

How can one even justify CARRYING a weapon, if to be spiritual is to have no means of defending self, home, or neighbor?

Living is a BALANCING ACT. We cannot approach PROPERTY as though it were totally separate from SPIRITUALITY.

Are there moderating arguments? I think so.

The spiritual instruction is that the Master mentioned that there would be a time to pick up the SWORD.

All of this can become complex. That's why TIME, PLACE, and CONTEXT are important.

Laws are founded upon social trust. Before social trust, there was conflict, and the conflict was resolved through force of arms. Then the public trust and goodwill permitted the rule of law. But before the law, people were the law. That's how chaos, mayhem, and villany were put to rest.

There comes a point when villainy must be put down by the PEOPLE. We are a government OF THE PEOPLE. When that trust IN THE PEOPLE is destroyed, chaos will reign again, and in that chaos, men will not be reciting scripture in love, one to the other. People who abide by LAW, must have the right to protect themselves, their neighbors, and their property and their neighbor's property.

If the LAW is used to persecute those who strive to abide by the law, the faith and trust of the people in their LAW is destroyed. When the spririt of the people is destroyed, how then shall they be the whole people of God, when their society protects the lawless, and persecutes those who abide by the law?

We can't have it both ways at once.

If that Texan who did the shooting was your next door neighbor, persecuted for protecting the sanctity of your home, perhaps his house will become a rental. Thieves can rent it, and be your neighbors. In a community which values THIEVES, let them have thieves for their inheritance.

Personally, I think that Texan was a stand up man. He was willing to lay down his life for his brother.

/
:)
 
Bruce,

I think that we don't have enough details in this case to know for sure if the Texan did the right thing. It is certainly plausible, however.

I agree 100% with you about law and spirituality.

~Dale
 
I wasn't at the scene, didn't see what the shooter saw, don't know the history of the area (ie have there been a string of burglaries lately or a string of violent crimes) I have no idea of the setting of the occurence.

But with the few basics I do know, a guy sees his neighbor's house being burglarized, sees said perpetrators reaching or fumbling for something, they drive off and the guy shoots at them while they drive away.

Given that information and only that information, I would definintely have made a different decision. Because IMO it comes down to the question: does the situation warrant the potential ill effect on my life that will occur if I kill someone. Might be selfish I realize, and while I have a respect for human life, I don't respect those who don't respect mine.

But it doesn't matter how justified you think you are in drawing your weapon and discharging it, because the incident will be investigated, it could be prosecuted by a liberal district attorney wanting to make a name for himself, and you can guarantee that the bad guy's family will find a sleazebag lawyer to file a civil suit so they can bank -

If a guy breaks into my house and I feel my family is threatened, then yeah, it is worth the relatively small amount of discomfort I might endure to protect them at any cost. But if I'm looking at suspects driving away from a scene, they have not caused any harm that I know of and are not posing an immediate threat, then it's not worth possible jail time and the tens of thousands of dollars (or more) defending myself, the stress, the time off etc (even if I was in the right) - that stupid punk isn't worth it.

Again - not judging the shooter because I know we don't have the full story,
but there are tremendous consequences that come with pulling that trigger, and a series of events which are executed at that very moment. Yes another human being's life is on the line, but so is yours.
 
I can't say that I like the idea of people shooting at moving vehicles in a residential area.

It seems legal, but it still doesn't seem right. Obviously it ended "well" seeing as no innocents were hurt, but it could have easily ended differently.
 
HK

As the story comes out it sounds like they were in the driveway, just pulling away.

If correct, this is not analagous to Martin Riggs trading fire with a suspect running through gridlocked traffic.
 
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