Any Jews in the Battle of Thermopylae?

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I don't know where else to ask this question. I know there were Jews living among both the Greeks and the Persians at the time of the Battle of Thermopylae (480 BC). Were any of the combattants Jewish do you think? Would Jews have been integrated enough into either side (Persians or Spartans) to serve in their armed forces? It seems like it might be possible. I'm mainly just curious about this.
 
Possible, but doubtful. No historical record of Jews fighting on either side that I know of. Recorded history from that period is not very comprehensive however.

Lots of fictional stuff coming out dealing with that period . . . "Troy" (dreadful) and "300", etc.
 
Most widely attributed quote from that battle . . .

Then Xerxes I asked him more forcefully to surrender their arms. To this Leonidas gave his noted answer:

Μολών Λαβέ
(pronounced: /molɔːn labe/), meaning "Come take them".

Maybe some don't know it's roots, but our RKBA motto has a long history. . . 2,487 years to be exact.
 
Well the Spartans were notorious xenophobes who were one of the few Greek peoples to make no linguistic distinction between people of other races and Greeks from other city-states. They were all xenoi to the Spartans. Combined with the heavy religious/superstitious element among the Spartan elite, I seriously doubt any Jews would have served among the Spartans (who really have more in common with Stalin or Hitler than they do any democracy).

Maybe among the other Greek city-state armies or the Persian army.
 
does this have something to do with the new movie 300?



I still need to go see that...
 
I tend to agree with Bartholemew. Considering that the Persian Empire at that time included Palestine, and also given the very cosmopolitan nature of the Persians (they went out of their way to integrate conquered peoples), I would consider it possible that Jews were on the Persian side.
 
That's my impression of the Spartans also. On the other hand the Persians at the time seemed to have quite a lot of religious and ethnic tolerance, something which continues (in some form) to this very day.

Anyway, I know people are wondering why I'm asking. Simple: I'm going to see that 300 movie with a friend who might (depending on the answer to this question) have had long-ago ancestors on one side of this battle and it would be funny to tease my friend about it if that is the case. Especially because, as portrayed in the movie, these ancestors were the bad guys, although in reality I would much prefer to have lived in Persian society at the time, vs. Spartan society.
 
I'll agree with "Liberal Gun Nut", although I'm not a Liberal.... :what:

It's possible that there were Jews in the other Greek forces at Thermopylae, but the Spartans definitely wouldn't have included any. (I suppose, if they had slaves along, there may have been Jews in that group.)

(I forget if the other Greek forces left before the final battle or not. IAC, it appears that the Spartans had the tip of that spear.)

The Persian "Immortals" - the King's "personal troops" or whatever - may not have been Jews. Hard to say just how ethnically correct their recruitment may have been, but it is quite likely that there were Jews in the rest of his army. I think that the "others" hit the Spartans first, too, before failing to make any headway, resulting in the Immortals being brought into the battle.

I think we can say that there probably were Jews on the Persian side, and possibly on the Greek side.

Kinda have to ask "why" too, but it is interesting.

Regards,
 
Thin Black Line

They may have had some "internal" concerns of their own at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerxes_...a#In_the_Bible

Ah, the old question - was Xerxes the same Persian Emporer known as Ahasuevos in the Book/Scroll of Esther (i.e. of Purim fame)?

I've been trying for quite some time to link up the Xerxes of Thermopylae with Ahasueros of Purim. There's an apparent gap in time - Thermopylae took place in 480 BCE, and Purim just before the Jews went back to rebuild the Temple. Since the 1st Temple was destroyed in 586 BCE and 70 years passed before the Temple was rebuilt, that would be 516 BCE, some 36 years before Thermopylae. Of course, we cannot know if the date for Thermopylae is 100% accurate - up to the time of the Romans, there was no single Western calendar set up. Further, Jewish tradition has the 2nd Temple standing for 420 years - and destruction in 70 CE means it was built in 350 BCE, some 166 years prior to 516 BCE. This 166 year gap has been the subject of a fair amount of discussion among historians, but it doesn't necessarily mean that Xerxes and Ahasueros were different people - i.e. if the traditional Western dating system is off because of a lack of consistency, then they could be the same person. Also, the 36 year gap discussed above isn't necessarily a gap - many Jews stayed in Persia (i.e. "by the waters of Babylon") even after the Temple was rebuilt, and the area now known as Israel was one of the 127 provinces/satrapies ruled by Ahasueros according to the Book of Esther (so, therefore, the Jews there would have also been subjected to genocide under the decree that Haman got from Ahasueros).

My understanding is that Xerxes and Ahasueros were very similar in character (arrogant, impulsive, insecure, etc.) and ruled the same extremely wealthy and extremely populous nation/empire, so it is at least within the realm of possibility that they are the same person. And, if so, this guy was at least twice a loser, a bearer of the scarlet "L" on his forehead.

Oh, and to stay on topic, it is entirely possible that Jews would have served (albeit probably involuntarily) in the Persian army or navy. Something like 2 million - 3 million Jews were brought to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar (whose empire was later taken over by the Media-Persia Empire under Cyrus the Great), and the Persian armed forces were made up of men from everywhere in the empire. I doubt that any Jews were in the (not so) Immortals that were Xerxes' personal guard, and I am utterly positive that no Jews were part of the force of 300 Spartans at Thermopylae. The Spartans were pure pagan, and were brutal thugs that engaged in child murder, etc. (yeah, they loved freedom - but only their own). Could Jews have been with the other Greek forces? That's doubtful. The Jews lived in the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah before the 1st Temple was destroyed, and the survivors were exiled to Babylon. That's the other direction from Greece. The fact that there were Greek Jews from the period of the 2nd Temple up through the 20th century is irrelevant to the period immediately surrounding the Battle at Thermopylae.

BTW, even though I have a lot of contempt for the Spartan way of life, I think that those at Thermopylae were heroes who saved not only their own civilization, but also the very idea of the West. I admire them greatly for their heroism, for their willingness to sacrifice themselves for their nation and their people, and I cannot wait to see "300" on an IMAX screen.

MOLON LABE!!!
 
Ah, the old question - was Xerxes the same Persian Emporer known as Ahasuevos in the Book/Scroll of Esther

One and the same, I believe. Ahasuerus in English, or Achasverosh in Hebrew.

Also a wonderful piece of music by Handel, both instrumental and vocal. Known as Handel's Largo in its orchestral version, or Ombre mai fui as a tenor aria. Quite wonderful, suggest the Bjorling version, otherwise Gigli did a fine job.

By the way, glad to see Hollywood's got the Iranians upset. Makes a change from upsetting the rest of us!
 
Closed one eye, squinched a bit ... still couldn't see how this thread would count as being about firearms or other civil liberties.

Sorry, guys. Interesting reading here.

pax
 
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