Any USPSA/IPSC Wheelgunners out there?

[ChristopherG]

I've been shooting IDPA with a sixgun (4" 625) for about a year now (SSR Exp), and would like to give the local monthly IPSC match a try. Who out there among you shoots IPSC with a wheel, and what can you tell me about it; or--if you insist on shooting one of those newfangled bottom-feeders--what have you observed among the sixgun elite?

How are revolvers regarded among IPSC shooters (interesting challenge, quaint anachronism, or ridiculous antique contraption?)? How many people shoot wheels in your area?

What equipment do you use or see people using--revos, holsters, etc.? (specifically; what models, what barrel lengths, what modifications?)

What advice would you give to someone interested in making the jump I'm considering, from IDPA to IPSC? (note: for my own purposes, I've always considered IDPA a game, so I don't intend to be offended or have a problem with the infamous 'gaming' aspects of IPSC)

 

[Gillster]

The first IPSC match I shot was with a 5" 625. It was what I was best equiped to shoot with as far as moonclips, holster and such. My usual game at the time was steel challenge type so I wasn't too smooth on the reloads. I was using a Safariland 002 Cup Challenge holster on a Safariland 2 piece belt and about 8 moon clip holders. I enjoyed the match but was the only wheelgunner and took some ribbing from the bottom feeders. I still shoot a revo at steel challenge matches but unless there are several of us who have discussed wheeling ahead of time, I don't usually shoot them at USPSA matches much. You really have to plan out your reloads carefully and you will still end up with standing reloads. It's still fun just a lot more work than something with more capacity.

Chris (G)

 

[Hoser]

I shot a revo in IPSC for about two years. Wanted to make GM with it. Thought that would be cool. Till I figured out the hit factors are totally screwed up and gave up. Still shooting it, but have gone back to mainly limited.

I started IPSC with a 610 and am currently shooting a 625. Started IDPA with a 610 and 625 and settled on a 686 in super. I used a Safariland holster till I tried a CR Speed. Much nicer and you can lock it in. I use shoot the moon holders as primaries and two Blade Tech holders as oh ???? holders.

The best advice I can give is realize the whole world isn’t Revo friendly. Not just IPSC. Get past that, and you will be ok.

All stages become virginia count. If you take more than three steps, do a reload.

Get a plan. It does not have to be a good plan, just get one. Then stick to it. Try to avoid thinking about how you would do it with a high cap gun. That just pours salt in the wound.

Prep the trigger before the sights are lined up. Fast splits with a revo does not help very much. Reloads under 2.0 seconds help more than anything.

Shooting major with a 357 kicks a lot more than a 45.

185gn hollow base .451 bullets rock in a 45ACP for revo.

Load all your moonclips before the match. If you have less than 30 clips, get 20 more.

Clean your cylinder between stages.

Reload with your weak hand.

Use Federal primers and the cleanest powder you can afford. As in Clays, N310 or 320. Jacketed bullets good, lead very bad.

Some people will point and laugh. Then beat them.

Jerry M is beatable.

Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.

Good luck to you.

Tom Freeman
AF Shooting Team, L2598

 

[ChristopherG]

Wow, great post Hoser; thanks for taking the time to write it. Let me respond and ask a follow-up, if I can.

First, the follow-up: I'm afraid I have no idea what this means:

the hit factors are totally screwed up

I've read the rules for basic scoring; Is the problem you're getting at here a problem specific to revolvers, or a problem in general, and what is it?

All stages become virginia count. If you take more than three steps, do a reload.

I'm familiar with the first issue; shooting a revo in IDPA, you have to shoot everything as if it were 'limited'; the second one is great advice that is very different from IDPA, where you can't leave live rounds behind--and will play very helpfully into the goal of developing a plan for every stage.

On the gear and ammo end of things, I've worked up a major load with Clays and the Berry's 185 HBRN that will shoot accurately, though I'm used to the softer push of a minor load with a 230 RNL. I've got the 6-brush cylinder-cleaner for between-stage brushouts. I've got clips aplenty, and a half-dozen cllpholders for the belt; shooting a 4" 625, for now, from a Blade-tech. Not the ideal gun or holster, but something to get my IPSC feet we with, I figure. My reloading is fast enough, though I use Jerry's strong-hand reload (my weak/left hand is just not up to moonclip-tossing).

And as for this,

Some people will point and laugh. Then beat them.

--that's a joy I've already discovered. I find, if I do my job right, they only laugh once

Thanks for the advice! It's good to hear there are a couple of others out there who see the allure of this seeming insanity.

 

[Ankeny]

I can't speak for hoser, but I'll agree the revolver hit factors are beyond repair. I shot a wheel gun for many years in PPC, Action Pistol, etc., before shooting IPSC. I thought making Master in five divisions would be ultra cool so I shot a revolver for one season. Mine was a 6.5 inch 610 with a CR Speed revolver holster.

I shot a four classifier special with my wheelgun on my first outing. All four classifiers were speed shoots, either multiple string or single string without a reload. After just five classifiers I ended up Master...in fact the third highest ranked revolver shooter in USPSA. What a bunch of horse poop. Master class, never shot a match higher than approved level, and never did a reload.

On the flip side, some classifiers require a standing reload of the revolver shooter where no reload is required from the auto shooter. Other classifiers will have multiple mandatory reloads. The hit factors on those courses are unrealistic for the revolver shooter. You see, revolver hit factors are not based on a a seperate database of revolver hit factors. The high hit factors for revolver are simply the exisiting Limited hit factors minus 10%. As a result, any eight round classifier is revolver hateful and a GM score is out of reach of all revolver shooters. Classifiers with a reload become all about the reload and a 95% GM score is still all but impossible. Six round neutral classifiers without a reload are ripe for picking and grandbagging.

It is simply stoopid for an unknown local hero (me) to be a high end Master, even though I do shoot a revolver very well, while a competitive shooter (GM Hoser) is plugging along a couple of dozen percentage points back because of a terminally flawed system. Who would you put your money on in a sanctioned level match?

 

[icecorps]

While I shoot autos in IPSC and IDPA, I'm always glad to see wheelgunners competing. Give IPSC a try, maybe you'll convert someone!

 

[Hoser]

Christopher, the hit factors that assign you a classification are messed up. When USPSA started Revo (production and L-10 as well) division they did not have any data to base their hit factors. They just kinda decided to make up hit factors. Like Ron said, Revo is 10% below Limited, Production is 5% below and L-10 is the same. They have yet to revise any of the hit factors.

What really burned me was the fact that my first couple classifiers were very poor, coming out around the 30% and 40% range. Then I have some in the 70% and 80% range that dont count, as they are too low to count for a "Master." Oh well. I tried to push harder and turn in some really good ones to make the bad ones drop off the books, but it just has not happened.

Keep on keeping on with your 4 inch. It may kick a little more, but your index time from target to target should be good.

I reloaded strong hand for about 7 months. I switched to weak hand and cut off an average of 0.6 seconds off my reload time and was much more consistent.

 

[Ankeny]

Holy cow Hoser, caught in the initial classification trap then made Master because of GM status. I would be fried when they keep a 30 per cent score and flag a 74% as too low.

 

[Hoser]

Fried? Thats one word for it. Mine were much more colorful. Then when Val at Sedro asked me if I wanted to borrow her classifier crying towel, I thought up a few new words.

 

[tommyc]

I always enjoy watching someone run a wheel gun at an IPSC match. Especially when they out run some of the autoloaders We have on guy in our shooting club that runs either a wheel gun, or a single stack .45 race gun. The man is like poetry in motion with both of them.