Anybody know of a russian anti-tank rifle?

[mrcpu]

I'm watching this show on the battle of kursk, and they're talking about the German tiger tanks coming up on the line of russian defenders. And they make mention of the fact that progress was halted because of the russian tanks, artillery, and russian anti-tank rifles. And then it cuts really quickly to this very grainy picture of this russian soldier firing this rifle that looks 8 feet long.

It was really skinny (relatively speaking) so I don't think it was a MG of any kind.

Puts a 91/30 to shame, let me tell you...

Anybody know what it is, or any info on it?

 

[Hoppy590]

theres two
the PTRD bolt action and the PTRS semi. ( giant SKS from my understanding)

both use 14.5 x 114 mm shells

Added:
PTRD http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/antitank.htm
PTRS http://www.gunpics.net/russian/ptrs/ptrs.html

 

[Lucky]

Yea a bunch of PTRDs went for <$2000 each last year up here, and there was a PTRS at the gunshow last weekenf for <$3K.

 

[chris in va]

Wow, that really does look like a giant SKS! Very interesting.

 

[Ian Sean]

One of my favorite sites with info on weaponry. Mostly German stuff but mentions almost all.

http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust6.htm

The PTRS-41 was built by Simonov and was semi-auto.

 

[SDC]

There's a video here showing a fellow up here testing his: http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=851

 

[redneckdan]

can you say "detached retina"?

 

[EricTheBarbarian]

thats looks cool eventhough ive never seen one in real life. could you find ammo for something like that?

 

[Tigerclaw_x]

PTRD and PTRS

Both of those rifles were more then adequate up until 1943. Even then, when fired from close position they could destroy the tracks and penetrate the armor of the rear hull of T-IV and T-III. These rifles had significantly more capability then BOYS Antitank rifle. These rifles, especially PTRS, were also used for an anti aircraft defence with some effect. They were also used as "antimachinegun nest rifles" I red and heard of a few cases where such rifles were used as sniper rifles, more specifically by so called "Siberian Divisions", where high percentage of soldiers were professional fur hunters with superb marksmanship skills. Example was that you need to kill a squirril with the head shot. Note that hunters in USSR in 1930s and up to 1960s could NOT afford a scope sight and all the shooting was done via IRON sights.
The cartrige for the rifle was used in a KPV machinegun.

 

[SDC]

thats looks cool eventhough ive never seen one in real life. could you find ammo for something like that?

It's hard; up here, the rounds go for around $30 each, and it's basically a "reload your own" proposition. I'm not sure what they go for in the US, since the rifles are considered "Destructive Devices" under the NFA (rifled bore over .50").

 

[Wes Janson]

Right now, from what I've heard, reloading 14.5mm is a serious pain insofar that there isn't really anyone out there doing it (or at least not very many at all). I'm told that the price per round for imported Russian steel-cased is about $20. Anzio Ironworks could probably give more information on the cartridge if you ask.

 

[FIFTYGUY]

I've got a PTRD. I haven't reloaded for it. I only fired one original round of 14.5x114mm Russian, just to see what it was like. I must say the gun in the original caliber is a real pussycat; I could comfortably shoot it all day long.

As ya'll have noted, 14.5mm Russian isn't easy to reload. I hear powder choice is difficult, there's the primer problem, and bullets are limited to aftermarket turned brass solids.

However, I bought the thing with the intention of converting it to 20mm Vulcan.

Here's my website describing the conversion process:

http://members.aol.com/fiftyguy/ptrd20mm.htm

Even at 70 lbs (31 lbs over the original), with an incredibly efficient muzzle brake, and shimmed-up butt-stock spring, the thing *will*slide you back a foot or so along the ground. The brake backblast flips the shooting tarp back over you and the gun, and gives you a "dirt and grass shower". 20mm Vulcan terminal effects are as you'd expect.

They made *huge* numbers of PTRD's. I've seen anywhere from 70,000 to 150,000 for production numbers, by the Soviets in WWII alone. They made so much ammo, it was the logical choice for the KPV which came along later.

Many fascinating similarities between 14.5mm Russian and US .60 Cal, which also started as an AT rifle caliber at the same time, and ended up doing HMG duty.

Here's a trivia question: I've never been able to find a published twist rate for any 14.5mm Russian weapon. Anybody have one?

 

[lamazza]

Nice site FIFTYGUY

 

[Limeyfellow]

Wow, that really does look like a giant SKS! Very interesting.

Thats because its what it is. Simonov invented the PTRS in 1938 as an anti material rifle and the rifle went into combat.

However when the Soviets entered the war they saw a need for a self loading rifle to mount a scope to and use in combat. In the competition it came down to the Tokarev SVT38 and the AVS-36 by Simonov. This was a selective fire weapon able to do automatic fire.

It did quite well in the tests though it sometimes had reliability problems with the more powerful ammo, or Stalin knew Tokarev and favouritism took hold depending on who you believe it wasn't picked. Hence the SVT38 and later SVT40 was picked for the design.

However in 1939 they began work on a smaller carbine round copied from ideas the German had used and tests were put out for a rifle it would use. That way they wouldn't shake themselves apart so often. Simonov was the first to use the new m1943 round aka the 7.62x39 in a rifle and it was put into field tests in 1944 during the battle of Berlin and a few other conflicts along the front before being adopted in May 1945.

And the rest is history when the AK47 was adopted.

All three of these Simonov invented rifles were pretty much the same rifle altered for different powers and roles.

 

[slzy]

in films of ww2,you can see entire platoons trudging through the snow armed with these rifles. i wonder if they all deployed near each other ? if they could have flanked artillery or as mentioned all fired at crew served weapons beyond the range of 7.62x54r ,or more importantly beyond the range of 7.92? all 30 of them shooting at the same point would be distracting,indeed.

 

[Lucky]

The guys who make .300 whisper just announced they're makign 14.5mm bullets now too! Almost same weight as the Soviet ones. They got some special exemption against NFA for an ammo they're making in 14.5. So you could hook them up.

But there's no-where up where I am that a person can shoot one

 

[Tony Williams]

This pic is from the article 'An introduction to Anti-Tank Rifle Cartridges' on my website (there's another one showing 20+mm rounds), showing the 14.5x114 Russian round (also used in the postwar KPV heavy machine gun):

The 12.7x99 is the .50 BMG. for comparison. The 13.9x99B is the Boys rifle round.