Anyone recently bought their first Carcano

[BigAlShooter]

Was searching the forums for some recent Carcano posts and it seems not many posts about the Carcano, considering all of the surplus for sale recently. I recently bought a 43 - 45 year M91 Calvary from Classic. For the price, it is a good deal. But, it is not a nice rifle. Granted, for the price, it is a nice collectors piece, but not a good shooter. Mine is in good condition, but let me say:

The sights looked cool, can range out to 1500m, but it shoots really high, even at 100 yards, so I could barely hit the target, even at 25 yards. I admit, I'm not too good with iron sights, but I really embarressed myself trying to hit the target. I'm not sure I could hit a barn at 500m, but maybe I just need practice aiming really low. Maybe these calvary soldiers were aiming at whole infantry at those long distances? Definitely ain't no one shot, one kill.

I plan to reload for it, but why spend the effort for something that is only good for blasting. I wish the sights were better, so I could really practice accuracy.

The follower spring is too weak, not going to pay to replace it. So, I bent it upward with a screw driver. When I first got it, it would not chamber a round unless you slammed the bolt like a madman. Now, after bending it, it will chamber, but every now and then it will just push the round into the chamber and get stuck. At the range, you have to either, make sure the range officer isn't looking and open the bolt and bang the stock to shake it out or take a cleaning rod and knock it out. I've now bent the follower to where it almost touches the bolt. Will try it again next time.

Just wanted to see if anyone else had similar experience. Maybe everyone else has recently bought one and has no ammo, so no one is chiming in.

 

[Robert]

What's the lowest range mark on the rear sight? Many of these old rifles had 200+ meter minimum rear sights. Which is odd to modern shooters. It is probably shooting just like it was intended. I did a quick Google search and it looks like the long range sight, which starts at 600m can be folded forward to allow the use of what I assume is a combat sight that sits behind and lower than the long range sight. I would imagine that is a 200-300m sights.

The follower spring is too weak, not going to pay to replace it.

Then, I guess you are okay with terrible function... What does the spring cost and hard hard is it to replace? It's a nearly 80 year old rifle. Bits need replacing every so often...
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=11362&idcategory=28
$16 for a replacement spring.

 

[wiscoaster]

The proper sight picture used on Carcanos is not the same as the typical rifle iron sights sight picture.

Here's a video on Carcano sight picture:



I don't have a 91 Cavalry Carbine, but I do have a 91 TS and I think it probably has the same sights. If it does, you flip the rear sight all the way forward into the groove in the upper handguard and use the sight blade thus exposed underneath as the close quarters battle sight (less than 300 yards).

 

[wiscoaster]

The video is kind of long-winded, so I made a diagram and took a quick pic. Black is rear sight blade outline, blue is front sight, red is desired point of impact.

View attachment 973254

The front sight is vertically aligned with the point of impact; the top of the rear sight is horizontally aligned with the point of impact, and the horizontal surface of the front sight base is horizontally aligned with the bottom of the rear sight's V-notch. Fun, huh?

 

[gotboostvr]

The video is kind of long-winded, so I made a diagram and took a quick pic. Black is rear sight blade outline, blue is front sight, red is desired point of impact.

View attachment 973245

I could see how using a conventional sight picture would send them a little high. That's... not quite what I'm used to.

 

[.455_Hunter]

I started getting into the surplus game as a young teen in 1990. I have looked at a bunch of Carcanos over the years, but they have never really interested me given the wonky action and custom chambering.

I understand in the current market, they are pretty much the only thing on the affordable list, which is a shame.

 

[wiscoaster]

You ought to give them a try. They're really fun shooters. And if you have a 91/38 you can always get an Oswald conversation going when you take it out at the range.

 

[Alaskan Ironworker]

I just saw my first carcano at a gun shop yesterday, I kinda turned my nose up at it. It was actually in pretty nice shape with a price tag half what all the other milsurps had on them. Are they the new mosin? Someone tell me why to go buy it lol. About all I know about them is they shoot a mild 6.5 cartridge and one was used by lee harvey oswald.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

The video is kind of long-winded, so I made a diagram and took a quick pic. Black is rear sight blade outline, blue is front sight, red is desired point of impact.

View attachment 973254

The front sight is vertically aligned with the point of impact; the top of the rear sight is horizontally aligned with the point of impact, and the horizontal surface of the front sight base is horizontally aligned with the bottom of the rear sight's V-notch. Fun, huh?

I can't even imagine being an Italian foot soldier and having my government give me a rifle like that.

 

[.455_Hunter]

The big issue compared to many other surplus guns is the ammo supply problem. They have not been front line since WWII (excluding various brush wars) and shootable ammo is limited to PPU and Norma, plus finding clips. The former Soviet industrial complex is not dumping cases of ammo on us like they did with 7.62x39 and 7.62x54. The Carcano rounds are firmly in 7.5 Swiss / 7.5 French availability regime, and even worse for the moribund 7.35 loading.

 

[Risky buisness]

After being around a friend of mines carcano, I just walked away from anything to do with them. Dumb clip, goofed up sights trigger awfull, at least on the sample I used. From an American standpoint being used to quality military bolt guns, these things are pretty poor.

 

[Oldschool shooter]

How well did you clean your rifle after you got it? I bought mine seversl years ago, loaded with cosmoline. Possible yours is hard to chamber a round because there is dried cosmoline in the chamber?

 

[wiscoaster]

After being around a friend of mines carcano, I just walked away from anything to do with them. Dumb clip, goofed up sights trigger awfull, at least on the sample I used. From an American standpoint being used to quality military bolt guns, these things are pretty poor.

Sort of makes those who had to use them regardless kind of admirable, IMO. The sights aren't "goofed up" - they're just different. Don't want to learn how to use them properly? OK, your choice, but don't blame the sights. There's always more than one side to a story. Those who refuse to consider the other side are the poorer for it. Sorry.

 

[wiscoaster]

Ian of "Forgotten Weapons" YouTube channel maintains it may be the best bolt rifle of WW II:



(Though if he's saying it's better than the 03-A3 I might have to differ)

 

[.455_Hunter]

Ian of "Forgotten Weapons" YouTube channel maintains it may be the best bolt rifle of WW II:



(Though if he's saying it's better than the 03-A3 I might have to differ)

I think Ian was having some "special brownies" that day. He even admitted the flaw about something on the bolt getting knocked out of alignment and stopping the loading/firing process.

 

[swoter]

I bought an M38 in 7.35 several years ago. Slightly sporterized, someone filled in the sling hole in stock with wood putty, then refinished stock. I really enjoy shooting it, very mild recoil. I reload for it, so easy to get ammo.

 

[Archie]

I have a M1891 Carcano for my WW1 infantry rifle collection. Purchase a couple years ago. I have shot it as part of the process of evaluating cartridges of that era. One must remember several things about this rifle and the development/designing/inventing process.

It was officially adopted and issued in 1891. That demands the rifle and cartridge had been under consideration for several years prior. Since smokeless powder cartridges had been introduced some five years prior, the 6.5x50mm Carcano round is at most a third generation smokeless powder cartridge. Probably second generation. It predates the 1892 Mauser and the M1892 Krag - Jorgensen rifle.

The rifle was designed for shooting belligerent soldiers at ranges of powder burn to 450-500 yards. The sights were made with this in mind, not for shooting possibly X count scores on 200 yard offhand targets. Just like now with battle rifles, a hit on the torso area was a hit. To be properly evaluated, one must use a silhouette type target (the IPSC-USPPA or whatever target comes to mind).

Range on issue cartridges in 1891 was limited as most gun powder for rifles was in what we think of as the 'faster' category. This becomes manifest in reloading some of the old cartridges. Loading manuals have loads for 'old' rounds such as the 6.5x55mm Swede and the .30 Army of the Krag; velocities that safely substantially exceed the original velocities, using 'slower' powders. To duplicate the original velocities, one must load a reduced load of a faster powder. Those 'faster' powders were revolutionary at the time but a full cartridge was not fully filled. Hence, the velocities were lower.

However, a telling bit of information working again the high speed theory is those old, slow cartridges were quite effective in warfare and hunting.

In short, the Carcano needs to critiqued for the intent, not to compare with the latest rifle concept.

 

[BigAlShooter]

Robert, thanks for finding a link for a spring. Not saying I will stay with a non-functioning rifle. I will try it again after bending it to where it almost touches the bolt. I might consider $20, but I'm not going to start replacing everything. Usually, I can work on the parts I have or add something to it to get back to normal. Also, the enbloc clip fits pretty tight in the chamber. Maybe I can smooth it up somehow. The clip definitely won't drop out, you have to push it out with a finger or two.

The lowest mark on the sight is 200m and I have it pushed forward. I'll try again using the sight picture from wescoaster. I only shot is 7 times, so, I know, I can't make an opinion from that. I am just used to other guns that just seem more natural shooters to me. The only I have is Steinel, which ain't cheap. I have on backorder some dies, which they keep extending the date, so I don't know when I can shoot enough rounds to get used to the gun.

I did soak all of the metal parts in mineral spirits and cleanup the stock with just soap and some superfine steel wool. The barrel looks to be in great shape. Everyone complains about the rough bolt, but if you clean it up and grease (not oil) up the bolt, it is not too bad.

And I really do like the quick, mild recoil of the 6.5.

 

[Whiterook808]

The clips can pricey for originals and repros can be fiddly. There is a guy on the bay selling plastic inserts to convert these rifles to single loaders. He also makes these for the Berthier as well.

 

[Risky buisness]

Sort of makes those who had to use them regardless kind of admirable, IMO. The sights aren't "goofed up" - they're just different. Don't want to learn how to use them properly? OK, your choice, but don't blame the sights. There's always more than one side to a story. Those who refuse to consider the other side are the poorer for it. Sorry.

Everyone does indeed have a choice and an opinion. If you find mine not to your liking, to bad.
By aluding to ' those who had to use them regardless kind of admirable ' reinforces the inherent flaws in the rifle, doesn't it?
And insofar as considering more than one side of a story, having the opportunity to interact with the carcano, and find it lacking in comparison to other well featured era firearms does speak to being able to develop a well founded opinion, and not taking a condescending tone while expressing it....sorry.

 

[caribou]

I enjoyed my Mochotto ALOT better once I knew how to use the sights......LOL!!!

PPU ammo is great, and Liberty Tree collectors sells clips at a reasonable price, and slings, parts, pouches, etc.

Handy little things to carry, just plain fun to shoot.

 

[wiscoaster]

Selway Armory has got some 7.35 mm ammo in stock.

 

[Ritchie]

Be aware that this rifle uses "gain" rifling. The twist is faster at the muzzle than at the chamber end. So if the barrel is shortened, standard weight bullets will probably not stabilize. Shorter, lighter bullets would probably work better.

 

[wiscoaster]

Be aware that this rifle uses "gain" rifling. The twist is faster at the muzzle than at the chamber end. So if the barrel is shortened, standard weight bullets will probably not stabilize..

That's only for certain models of the Carcano. It doesn't apply to all of them. Specifically the 91/24 TS, which was a 91 shortened to TS carbine length. It's identified by retaining the long rifle rear sight on a carbine-length barrel.

 

[mokin]

The video is kind of long-winded, so I made a diagram and took a quick pic. Black is rear sight blade outline, blue is front sight, red is desired point of impact.

View attachment 973254

The front sight is vertically aligned with the point of impact; the top of the rear sight is horizontally aligned with the point of impact, and the horizontal surface of the front sight base is horizontally aligned with the bottom of the rear sight's V-notch. Fun, huh?

That's a great diagram. Well worth over a thousand words. I've had a Carcano since Reagan was president. I really like it. It isn't in the same league as my other milsurps, but it's a lot of fun. Given the economic and social conditions in Italy when that rifle was being developed, I think it's a neat technological statement to how Italy adopted to a changing world situation.