approaching max charge??

[Axis II]

I'm loading 223rem 55gr v max with h335 for 1-9 twist bolt gun.

some say hornady data is low end and I can go as high as hodgdon data max 25.3 spr sp bullet. hornady max is 23.2gr

now. someone recommended i do a full load work up cause I'm having some accuracy issues. i started at minimum 20.8 and went as high as 22gr the first time trying 400 and mag primers.

this time i loaded all with mag primers cause the groups were tighter than standard primers but i stopped at 22.6 for now to see what you guys say.


if hornady max is 23.2 should i work it up .1gr since I'm getting close?

thanks.

 

[kcofohio]

Hodgdon also list 2 other loads for 55 gr. bullets. 55 gr. Barnes TSX FB 2.180" max 22.7 gr. 53,000 PSI. And 55 gr. SFire 2.220" max 22.8 gr. 51,800 PSI.

All different bullets, profiles, depths, etc. You should be okay working up by .2 gr. off the Hornady's data. But it is up to what you feel comfortable with.

 

[rg1]

Normally I wouldn't ever recommend going above published data but in this case I think Hodgdon's data is realistic and Hornady's data is not. I've tested H335 with different 55 grain bullets in .223 AR's and a bolt action. If you are loading to Hornady's recommended overall length with the 55 V-Max then jump even 1/2 grain at a time until you get to about 24 grains then work on up in smaller increments. Now if you're seating longer out to the lands, touching or jamming into them, then you're on your own. Hornady has been lazy and has used the same data in the last few manuals with H335. Just work up watching for any pressure signs. I shoot 25 grains in AR's and my bolt action rifle with no issues. Also check Sierra's data for their 55 gr. .223 load. It's similar to Hodgdon's data. Your rifle may show different results?? The Barnes and Sinterfire bullets mentioned are solid copper and solid powdered metal frangible. Different than copper jacketed lead core bullets. I shoot RP 7 1/2 primers but also have tested CCI 41's.

 

[Axis II]

Using Hornady OAL data.

 

[kcofohio]

Using Hornady OAL data.

Will it fit in your AR magazine? Or will you be shooting them out of an AR?

 

[Reloadron]

This is your bolt gun correct?
The Speer #12 manual pushes similar 55 grain bullets with H335 up to 26.0 grains of powder. Actually 24.0 Start and 26.0 Maximum. Sierra 50th Anniversary pushes a collection of 6 assorted 55 grain bullets with H335 up to 25.9 grains Maximum starting with 22.9 grains. The COAL runs between 2.230" to 2.250". Yes, the Hornady load data tends to run on the light side.

The trick here and with any load is to constantly be looking at those spent cases for pressure signs. A Google of "cartridge pressure signs" will bring up pictures (we like pictures) to videos and detailed explanations of what to look for in detail. See what you can fit in your rifle's magazine as was mentioned. My guess is in your bolt gun a 2.250" COAL should not be an issue.

Finally I know you have worked extensively with H335 which is a very good choice for the .223 Remington. It is however, not the only powder out there. Eventually you can try some others.

Ron

 

[Axis II]

Bolt gun, don't own an AR-15. I worked em a bit higher today and they keep getting closer together. Will go a bit higher tomorrow and see what those do Tuesday or Wednesday.

 

[kcofohio]

Bolt gun, don't own an AR-15. I worked em a bit higher today and they keep getting closer together. Will go a bit higher tomorrow and see what those do Tuesday or Wednesday.

My mistake!

 

[Grumulkin]

Bolt gun, don't own an AR-15. I worked em a bit higher today and they keep getting closer together. Will go a bit higher tomorrow and see what those do Tuesday or Wednesday.

When you approach maximum pressure, the groups will most likely widen; perhaps dramatically, and that will be your definite stopping point.

 

[rsrocket1]

I don't have a bolt .223, I have a 20" AR so this might not be exactly your situation. I have no problem with 25.0g H335 with a 55g fmjbt seated right at the middle of the cannelure. It is close to the published max load, but it's still below and is perfectly safe.

Here's how I got to my "perfect load". I shot several types of factory rounds and found a couple that worked well in my gun. I chrono'ed these rounds, then found loads for H335 that duplicated the MV's of the factory rounds making sure the loads were below the published max for the powder/bullet combo.

I was looking for a bargain "range fodder" load that would get me 1 MOA off a bench rest because most of my shooting would be off sandbags, off hand or resting on my elbow with either a low powered scope or peep sights. My personal shooting is much worse than that so if I'm off, I know it's not the gun or loads.

If you do an internet search, a lot of guys use 25g H335 with a 55g bullet and have no problems with it. It fills the case nicely and makes it very easy to shake and ensure that you haven't missed a charge or have an excessively low charge.

 

[ericuda]

With h335 I use 25.0 with most 55 grain bullets. I would load some up there and see what you get. I just shot this load out of a 16" ar and it performed well.

 

[Ifishsum]

Go ahead and work up higher; just keep an eye on your fired brass for any signs of excess pressure. At any point if you feel you shouldn't go higher, just stop and pull the rounds loaded above your comfort level. My guess is that you'll be able to go up a fair amount more, and probably find an obvious accuracy node somewhere.

 

[Load Master]

I have found with the Hornady #2267 FMJBT bullet I have very good with 24.5 grains of H335. Here is my data.

 

[spitballer]

I agree with the use of mag primers with ball powder. Also you didn't specify barrel length, but if your bolt gun has a longer-than-24" varmint/target barrel like mine you may even eventually have to consider a layered powder charge to make the most of that barrel, simply because of the tiny size of the case in relation to bore volume. The manufacturers of .223 varmint/target rifles could advise purchasers about this, but in fairness they probably can't afford to recommend procedures (i.e. duplexing) that aren't supported by conventional reloading manuals and load data. IMHO this is tragic for the long-gunner who eventually loses faith in the rifle that would have provided outstanding performance with the right load.

 

[Axis II]

If I had a better rest instead of rock solid Caldwell bags I could pull off one hole 5 shots. I started loading 20.8 of H335 with cci400 and 450 primers and the 450 shot tighter. I loaded all the way up to 22gr with both primers and 450 shot better so I scrapped the 400 primers and now I'm at 23.2gr of h335 with cci450 55gr v max. savage axis bull barrel at 100yards.

Would really like to get this thing over a chronograph and see what its pushing. Checked all brass and didn't see a single inkling of high pressure. the red dot is the exact size of a dime.


http://s1030.photobucket.com/user/martpjin2011/media/IMG_0558_zpsenhmfzij.jpg.html?o=0


http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y367/martpjin2011/IMG_0557_zpseeq1vavi.jpg

http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y367/martpjin2011/IMG_0556_zpssv5lff41.jpg

WARNING--This load data is worked up over Hornady 9th manual max load charge. Please do not use this data as it maybe unsafe in your firearm. Ohihunter2014 and the thehighroad.com are not responsible for data shown in this post

 

[noylj]

OP:
You don't have the same gun, same power lot, same lot of bullets (do you even have the same bullet, period?), same COL, same case, or same primers, so you have to do what all reloaders have to do: start at the start load and work up watching for pressure signs.
There is no "better" manual. They all use SAAMI pressure test requirements and all their loads are within those requirements and, often, they publish the average pressure so you can see that they aren't "lawyering" their data. However, none of them use the same gun, COL, or components as the other test labs, so results vary.
During load work-up, if you get tight groups that start to open up as you increase charge weight, then you can stop right there and not even worry about max.
It used to be standard procedure to work up loads until you actually got over-pressure signs, and then decrease the charge--this was the standard recommended procedure in all the manuals. This led to lots of decade old pet loads being found to be producing >70,000 psi. With pressure tests better than the old copper crush test, almost ALL charge data has decreased over the last 20 years.
So, sorry, but no manual is more than a guideline. That is all they are.

 

[RecoilRob]

We've fired thousands of 26 grain H335 5.56 and so far...no problems. Have done workups on a few rifles and my experience was they shot tighter groups the faster we went. Now...this is with an old lot of H335 and I think the latest (within a few years) lots tend to be hotter and might need to be reduced, but the old H335 was perfectly OK at 26 under the 55 grainers.

One guy at a shoot had his M16 out and it was misbehaving with the Wolf he was trying to feed it. A few other guys tried their ammo in it and it just was choking on everything. I had a few mags loaded with 26-335 under the 55 fmj and gave them a go...and it ran through them most excellently as everything else they'd been shot in did.

It was mentioned earlier about the modern load data being more conservative than old data...and is mostly caused by more sophisticated strain gauge measurements vs the old fashioned CUP crusher devices. Yes...they may indeed be more accurate, but if the cartridge was originally designed with CUP crusher information which set the limits, I'm wondering if the new strain gauge data might not correlate to the maximums that were set in the past? When CUP said the max was at 56K...but then we find that loads that for the last 30 years were used without issue are actually producing 62K...I wonder if this is really a problem?

For Lawyers..of COURSE it IS!! But for you and me...maybe not so much. As long as you're using the same powder generation as the load data was made for I doubt much wrong is going to happen. As always if ANY signs of excessive pressure rear their ugly heads you must stop! But personally I'll continue to run what I've been running for the last 30+ years and not worry so much...until I have to buy new H335.