AR-15 purchase - My Brain Hurts!

[PennsyPlinker]

Okay, I just got back from my friendly gunshop. He had four variations of AR there. Two had the fixed buttstock, so that left them out. I want the collapsible stock so other family members can shoot it comfortably as well. The third one discarded from consideration had a bunch of fancy furniture for $1259!

The one I would buy if I end up buying off the rack, so to speak, is a S&W M&P 15 for $909. Carbine, detachable carry handle, nothing fancy about the stock except that the buttstock collapses. He also had a DPMS upper there for $439.00.

So I come home and am doing some research in spare minutes here, and I find a good reference to RRA. It looks like parts are readily available, but if I want to buy an assembled lower, the wait is 3-4 months! I could save some money there, but I don't really want to wait that long.

What about that DPMS upper? How does it compare with say, the S&W I had in my hands? Where else should I look if I want something comparable without having to wait months and months?

Oh yeah, does the upper include the bolt as well, or is that extra too?

Maybe I will end up building one...

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

Get the Smith. Or look at Stag (they actually make the rifles for S&W). You can get complete Stag/CMT uppers in the $475 range brand new with some little extras most uppers won't come with. Not to mention, they MPI their bolts, chrome line their barrels, etc... and the quality is better than DPMS for sure.

I don't know if that DPMS upper comes with a bolt and carrier group, but the Stag's do.

 

[only1asterisk]

You can get a Stag upper and buy a Stag lower separately for about $730. They are as good as or better than the S&W product and you don’t have to pay for the S&W name. The thing you have to remember about AR’s is that there are only a few companies out there actually making parts. Everybody buys from the same places, even the larger companies like Bushmaster. The differences are in the quality that they specify and how the parts are assembled. Don’t pay more than $750 for a standard carbine or rifle.

David

 

[DogBonz]

Only 1... You are correct... well, mostly

The thing you have to remember about AR’s is that there are only a few companies out there actually making parts. Everybody buys from the same places, even the larger companies like Bushmaster.

This is true. The forging equipment is so expensive that the few companies that do it, also make everything else that is forged aluminum. So that factory that is making AR lowers today might be making car parts or frying pans tomorrow. The prohibitive costs that are involved in the necessary equipment means that, to the best of my knowledge, no AR makers make their own forgings.

The differences are in the quality that they specify and how the parts are assembled.

This is true also, how ever this is only part of it. Going back to the forging, AR makers supply their own dies to the forger. So, the better the dies, the better the forgings. Also, dies wear out. Forgings from the first strikes will be better than the ones to follow (with in reason). Therefore dies must be replaced at regular intervals. That means the better the dies, the more that they cost the company. The more that the dies are changed, the more it costs the company, and they pass that to you.

This then ties into your point about assembly. The better the forgings, the less time it takes to prep them. That means that money can be saved on labor, and passed on to the consumer, pocketed by the company, or (hopefully) be allocated towards provining a better product at the same price.

 

[only1asterisk]

Going back to the forging, AR makers supply their own dies to the forger. So, the better the dies, the better the forgings. Also, dies wear out. Forgings from the first strikes will be better than the ones to follow (with in reason). Therefore dies must be replaced at regular intervals. That means the better the dies, the more that they cost the company. The more that the dies are changed, the more it costs the company, and they pass that to you.

Most companies (like S&W) that sell AR's don't own their own dies, they buy the parts from a supplier like CMT.

David

 

[PennsyPlinker]

I just spent some time at the Stag site and others selling Stag. IF the stuff is in stock (which most say it isn't), then by the time I add in all the rest of the parts and upgrade things like a carry handle, chrome line the barrel, etc, and put it together, I am out almost the same amount of money. This is almost as bad as trying to decipher my cell phone bill!

There is a gun show this weekend. Perhaps I will see if there are any deals to be had there before I go back to the shop.

On the plus side I did get to go to the range today and kill some paper.

 

[only1asterisk]

Decide exactly what kind of AR you want, then we can help you find a deal.

David

 

[HorseSoldier]

Do you have other gun stores in your area? You could check and see if any of them carry complete RRA lowers. A couple places in my neck of the woods carry them as part of their regular inventory, as well as complete rifles and stripped lowers.

The DPMS upper receiver should come with the bolt and all other components as long as it is being sold as a "complete upper." I'd think it unlikely the guy is trying to sell a partial upper.

DPMS quality is okay, I think. Some people have had bad experiences with them, but the one rifle and then one seperate upper I've owned from them were pretty good.

Judging by my local prices for RRA lowers, plus the price you quoted for the DPMS upper, I'd think putting one with the other would get you an AR for under $800 (before tax), which would save you a decent bit of money against the $900+ for the M&P15 you mentioned.

 

[Eleven Mike]

Your brain hurts because God is punishing you for wanting an AR. Go look at something in 7.62, and that headache will clear right up.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

I just spent some time at the Stag site and others selling Stag. IF the stuff is in stock (which most say it isn't), then by the time I add in all the rest of the parts and upgrade things like a carry handle, chrome line the barrel, etc, and put it together, I am out almost the same amount of money. This is almost as bad as trying to decipher my cell phone bill!

Not true.

http://ar15sa.fatcow.com/store/page2.html

 

[PennsyPlinker]

Thanks for the responses guys, and RMT, thanks for that link. I appreciate the input.

Eleven Mike, sometimes I think God punishes me for all sorts of things. But then I remember what He wrote, and realize that most of that punishment is self inflicted. I already have an AK variant. Besides, I need as many calibers as possible so as to make best use of the leftover ammo I'll take from the JBT who will eventually come calling.

Horse Soldier, I called a couple of local places, and struck out. Cabela's is well stocked, but with their prices, it is not hard to see why! There is a place in the city where I no longer go for other reasons, and the other guy close to me is out for now. I will be checking out the gun show this weekend, but the link I got from RMT looks a lot better than the ones I was finding.

*, (how's that for shorthand?), what I want is pretty much a compact rifle, or carbine. I was discussing my lust list with my wife and told her I would like to add an AR to my AK before a possible second AWB. I read a lot about long long shots and such from the guys out west, but around here in eastern PA, regardless of whether I am shooting at something two or four legged, long shots of over 200 yds just aren't that common. Besides, if I need to make shots like that, I will have to get me a sniper rifle, right?

 

[10-Ring]

You know, if the choices were just down 2 manufacturers, it would be so much easier to decide. I ended up going w/ RRA for my 223 & was obsessed into getting a CMMG / Superior Arms 9mm.
Happy w/ both & glad I have both
Believe me, your head will stop hurting after you take your AR shooting