Are S&W's TI and Scandium guns as strong
- Thread starter MDG1976
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ChristopherG
Member
I wouldn't. I like the scandium guns, and believe they are a great tool for what they do, but I wouldn't shoot overpowered .44 mags in them both because I've seen pictures of more than one with no topstrap (don't know how it happened, but I've heard enough rumors of problems to make me cautious); and because I've shot scandium guns before.
Have you shot a scandium revolver? A standard magnum load in a gun this light is not just punishing, it's irreducibly painful and potentially injurious. Only in the direst emergency would I shoot anything more powerful than a regular old 240 g JHP or JSP. With those loads, I'd have no concerns about the gun--only my hands and wrists.
Don't get me wrong. I would LOVE to have a 329 (the model under consideration); but it would likely never see anything more powerful than a very MODERATE magnum handload, and it wouldn't see very many of those.
Have you shot a scandium revolver? A standard magnum load in a gun this light is not just punishing, it's irreducibly painful and potentially injurious. Only in the direst emergency would I shoot anything more powerful than a regular old 240 g JHP or JSP. With those loads, I'd have no concerns about the gun--only my hands and wrists.
Don't get me wrong. I would LOVE to have a 329 (the model under consideration); but it would likely never see anything more powerful than a very MODERATE magnum handload, and it wouldn't see very many of those.
HankB
Member
I'm not convinced that the scandium frame is as strong as a good steel frame; the scandium is just a trace added to aluminum alloy, and while it's strong enough to do the job, I wouldn't be too interested in feeding it the very hottest loads.
I have a 340SC, and recoil with full power .357s is rather unpleasant - I carry it with .357s that are a bit less than maximum-effort loadings, and I figure it will hold up a lot better with those, or .38+P rounds.
As far as the strength of the .44s is concerned, at least one early production run had a problem with barrels being blown off. Aside from recoil, I wouldn't plan on firing a lot of "hot" .44 Mags out of that gun; if I had one, I'd mostly shoot "medium" .44 Mags out of it - probably something along the lines of old Elmer Keith's souped-up .44 Special loadings.
I have a 340SC, and recoil with full power .357s is rather unpleasant - I carry it with .357s that are a bit less than maximum-effort loadings, and I figure it will hold up a lot better with those, or .38+P rounds.
As far as the strength of the .44s is concerned, at least one early production run had a problem with barrels being blown off. Aside from recoil, I wouldn't plan on firing a lot of "hot" .44 Mags out of that gun; if I had one, I'd mostly shoot "medium" .44 Mags out of it - probably something along the lines of old Elmer Keith's souped-up .44 Special loadings.
ChristopherG
Member
I agree. It is the perfect tool for that job; but surely you don't need anything beyond a standard mag load, unless the bears in question are horribilus. With reasonable and adequate loads, I'd certainly go for it if I had the coin.
HighVelocity
Member
Does that mean it hurts?
I really like the Scandium guns. I don't have a 329 yet but it's on my list. If you plan on packing it on outdoor excursions I definitely recommend you take the Ahrends grips off and put something rubber on it, preferably something that covers the backstrap. It will take some of the sting out if you actually have to use it and you don't risk damaging the nice wood.
JNewell
Member
Unscientific impressions say maybe not. S&W had essentially no mechanical/materials problems with the Alum/Ti revolvers in .38 Special +P and .44 Special. The results have been much less satisfactory, or at least were for quite a while after introduction, with the .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum models. I don't think that it's an accident that the higher pressure chamberings have not done as well, even with their higher-tech, higher-strength frame materials. This is based on reading user reports on various forums for years, however, not on a metalurgical study...but sometimes practical experience overrides what you think the numbers are telling you (and perhaps S&W has worked the kinks out and newer production guns are better).
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Even the steel S&Ws should not be hot-loaded. If you insist on hot-loading a Smith, be prepared for it to fail or wear out prematurely. If regular factory magnum loads are not hot enough, get a bigger cartridge. 500 S&W and 460 S&W ought to be enough revolver for anybody. If they're not, I heard of some
German character who made a revolver chambered in 600 Nitro express.
I shoot my 329PD regularly with .44 Special Cowboy loads; they're just right for plinking and target practice. I shoot enough standard factory .44 Magnum loads for sighting and familiarization, but they're not very good for the hands. A steady diet of hot Magnum loads is a good way to kill a Ti/Sc gun.
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Even the steel S&Ws should not be hot-loaded. If you insist on hot-loading a Smith, be prepared for it to fail or wear out prematurely. If regular factory magnum loads are not hot enough, get a bigger cartridge. 500 S&W and 460 S&W ought to be enough revolver for anybody. If they're not, I heard of some
German character who made a revolver chambered in 600 Nitro express.
I shoot my 329PD regularly with .44 Special Cowboy loads; they're just right for plinking and target practice. I shoot enough standard factory .44 Magnum loads for sighting and familiarization, but they're not very good for the hands. A steady diet of hot Magnum loads is a good way to kill a Ti/Sc gun.
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"There's a reason they say that shooting full house loads in a 360 is "Shaking hands with the devil" "
I love that line!!!
WOW!! Just ran the numbers on Corbons 240 grain @ 1475 out of the 329PD.
34 ftlbs of recoil, @ 36 FPS!!!
That's near DOUBLE recoil out of an average .44 Magnum...
3 lb gun slows that down to 19 ft-lbs or recoil, with 20 fps recoil.
240 grain bullets, @1000 fps get recoil down to 16 ft-lbs, at 24 fps, out of 329PD.
You could run 240's @ 1200 fps, and still have only 22 ft-lbs of recoil, which, as far as I'm concerned, is just plenty for most anything you want to use the gun for.
According to the program I'm using, if you up the bullet weight in these Scandiums, the recoil goes up nearly geometrically. If you run the 320'@ 1200, you end up with 37 ft-lbs of recoil, again. Drop the velocity to 1000 fps , and you are at 22 ft-lbs.
s
I love that line!!!
WOW!! Just ran the numbers on Corbons 240 grain @ 1475 out of the 329PD.
34 ftlbs of recoil, @ 36 FPS!!!
That's near DOUBLE recoil out of an average .44 Magnum...
3 lb gun slows that down to 19 ft-lbs or recoil, with 20 fps recoil.
240 grain bullets, @1000 fps get recoil down to 16 ft-lbs, at 24 fps, out of 329PD.
You could run 240's @ 1200 fps, and still have only 22 ft-lbs of recoil, which, as far as I'm concerned, is just plenty for most anything you want to use the gun for.
According to the program I'm using, if you up the bullet weight in these Scandiums, the recoil goes up nearly geometrically. If you run the 320'@ 1200, you end up with 37 ft-lbs of recoil, again. Drop the velocity to 1000 fps , and you are at 22 ft-lbs.
s
heartlesslizard
Member
I bought one of the first five 329 S&W's that came into my area. This gun has been shot over 600 rds and only about 70 of these 44 Spl.
The guns are rated for any SAAMI spec loads. If you hand load stay in the 44 Spl and low 44 mag range of data.
I really like this gun and plan on carrying it more than shooting it. Yes - 12 rds is about a days shooting for most people. If you forget all you know about shooting and just moderatly hang on - you will be fine.
Most people over grip a gun and the 329 has such a quick snap to it. Let it recoil and it will be out of energy before your arm can fully bend.
George
The guns are rated for any SAAMI spec loads. If you hand load stay in the 44 Spl and low 44 mag range of data.
I really like this gun and plan on carrying it more than shooting it. Yes - 12 rds is about a days shooting for most people. If you forget all you know about shooting and just moderatly hang on - you will be fine.
Most people over grip a gun and the 329 has such a quick snap to it. Let it recoil and it will be out of energy before your arm can fully bend.
George
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