Are we at a tactical disadavantage without full auto?

[Too Many Choices!?]

Full-Auto is for mouse guns and Crew-served

4 words,"Trigger Control, and ,"Rate of fire control". I am thinking of military service but as it stands, the closest I've come is,"Tom Clancy's Blackhawk Down", video game. In this game full auto fire is a MUST IN SHOULDER FIRED WEAPONS IF YOU FOLLOW THE 4 words above....In the game, if I am running from cover to cover, with unknown B/G(mixed with civies) I switch to auto fire till I get to cover. I asess the situation and switch back to semi if I am staying put. Again in the game, if I am movine from cover to cover, or on a steady move to a place with B/G 150ydsand in, then full auto will usually
get me to cover while returning firing a couple 2 or 3 round bursts(which in the game will cause SOME B/G to duck and change firing positions or flee to cover).
From playing the game, I also prefer full auto to three round burst. 3round burst has gotten me killed(due to reloading)in that game more than RPG's. Just my opinion but I would rather have the option to put out 3-5 trigger pulls, full auto 2rounds, and then switch to semi, with a remaining 24-20
shots. Or like I said I if I and the target are both moving I razzzem ...

PS. I go probably 60-40 full auto semi on the game, but then again it's deltas game and they always on the move

 

[TSH77769]

Having trained on and being certified in the use of the MP5, UZI, and M16 as well as having experience with numerous select fire weapons I can tell you that full auto IS DEFINITELY advantageous in certain specialized situations. However, for the vast majority of cases semi-auto does equally well. Full auto is also ONLY an advantage for a person who is well trained in its use and it actually requires even MORE fire discipline than a semi auto, otherwise you find yourself out of ammo very rapidly with a high chance for a REDUCED number of hits vs semi-auto. Power is NOTHIGN without control.

Range is a very limiting factor for effective full auto use. This is OK, because it is when they are on top of you that you really wish for full auto anyways.

BTW, I am refering to shoulder fired (as opposed to vehicle or fixed mounted) and mag fed (as opposed to drum or belt) light caliber weapons (9mm, .223, 7.62x39 for example) ONLY!! Otherwise it is a whole different story.

The advantages of full auto include...

To help make up for a lack of individual ammo power. For example, one 9mm or one .22LR might not be much power per se, but 2 or more of them hitting nearly simultaneously has a synergistic effect.

To help put the target down quicker at IMMEDIATELY close range. When some one is virtually on top of you and you need them to stop, you want them to STOP RIGHT F'ing NOW!! One way to help with that is by volume of fire, ie full auto.

Area suppression for fire and manuever. By occasionally filling an area with a lead wall you can pin the bad guys down so that your buddies can move up on them and take them out.

The first two are the primary issues.

That is pretty much it.

This is of course a deliberately GROSSLY simplified view of things.

TSH77769

 

[goon]

Given my experience with FA, I would say we are not at a disadvantage. I have shot the M-16A2, M-60, M-249, M-240B, M2HB, and an AR-15 Carbine with a lightning link in it. Although it is effective from a mounted machine gun or from a bipod, in your standard 5.56mm or 7.62mm rifle I would say it is a waste.
You'd be better off to aim and make the most of your ammo.
Unlike the military, I don't have a supply chain with an unlimited source of ammo at my request.

 

[.45Guy]

I think Wyatt Earp said it best, "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." That little addage will always be true.

 

[TSH77769]

Hillbilly, just for the record, the Rhodesians did not lose the battles and they did not lose the war, tehy lost the peace. What do I mean? The UN and the commies conspired, betraryed, and backstabbed them after peace terms were agreed to, and the western goverments, especially Britain turned their back to them from the very beginning.

I know from first hand accounts the truth of the matter regarding their deliberate use of semi-auto only fire from their FAL's. In addition to the reasons you cited, ammo conservation and supplies was also a motivation as well.

Long Live Rhodesia!!

tsh77769

 

[Too Many Choices!?]

Clinical full-auto/semi-auto comparison,

I will play my game(Delta Force Blackhawk Down, Tom Clancy) on semi only, and start a second game which uses full auto-mixed with semi auto fire and draw a conclusion.....

 

[CleverName]

TMC - the only thing is that these games are hardly realistic. In BF2, for example, I shoot a guy in the chest with a .50 cal MG once and he blinks hard. If I would do the same in real life I'm pretty sure that would ruin his day.

Also, since when is hopping in a circle around somebody while shooting them a viable tactic?

 

[artherd]

It's funny. FA is effective in my opinion at very SHORT ranges (with a small shoulder fired type weapon or even machine pistol, ie sweeping a whole room in a figure 8 with an MP5.)

OR at extremely LONG ranges with a beltfed

And of course, who can ignore the M134 (and it's larger cousins) Minigun. <drool> <slobber> 100rounds/second, talk about a force multiplier!


But do I care a lot about FA on an M4/M16? No, I don't. But I'd have it if I could

 

[c_yeager]

One thing is for certain; not having full-auto doesnt do a darn thing for us.

 

[JShirley]

Are we at a tactical disadavantage without full auto?

Not with most shoulder weapons. It's really only much of an issue with very low-power weapons (subguns) and crew-served weapons.

John

 

[Baba Louie]

If we're using pistol rounds in a burp gun or Tommy gun for in-town, house to house clearing and we have unlimited resources for resupply... it might be a nice feature to include within your group of friendly fellows in a firefight.

Or perchance your company is escorting some armor across a field with a mind to remove some foreign foes dug in defensively... then some type of rifle with 'da switch' might come in handy now and then.

I tend to think of concealment w/ cover using a scoped bolt action to be a far far wiser use of my energies in an effort to defeat and discourage armed opposition... (better yet ... call in the artillary whenever possible) but as always, YMMV