Are we really all that nice?

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Dashunde

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In another thread I recently stated that “We are nice people, our Government is not..â€
I’ve since done a bit of thinking about how “nice†we really are as individuals, and how our individual wants effect our Government and their decisions. Face to face, we genuinely are a sincere and caring bunch, but I fear that our collective will and expectations far exceed our wisdom.

How have we made America what it is today? Clearly, we have had an infinite number of successes of all sizes and types. We know that we are a “Great Nationâ€, but I wonder what is at the center of our ever increasing list of problems? I believe the core problem is in our own mindset, I believe that they lie in our own American Expectations.

So what do we expect, and when do we stop wanting? You may have noticed that someone is always complaining about something while living in a country where life is generally pretty easy. We have virtually everything we could want or need readily available, there are no shortages of food, medicine, or fuel. We are not bad-off in any way, yet we still demand more. We must have our fuel, our clothing, our "stuff"... and most importantly, we must be able to buy it all cheap.

Our Government, our politicians, they are forced to deal with the spoiled-rotten American public. If we do not get our "stuff" cheap we are upset, and out goes the politician responsible. We are not about to lower our own personal standard of living by not purchasing things that we simply do not need so that we can afford $4 per gallon of gasoline that we extracted from our own wells using our own American labor. This is not mearly about oil and fuel, it is about everything that we American's see and buy at our Wal-Marts, Targets, Best-Buy’s, and department stores. Very little of it is truly "Made In America". Our own “Corporate America†is constantly feeding us all of the foolishness about what we “needâ€, how to look, and how the latest and greatest gizmo will make our lives easier. After watching all of this nonsense daily we begin to feel rather dissatisfied with what we already have. Where does Corporate America get all of this “stuff†anyway? We buy it dirt cheap from other countries that we have learned to exploit. Our Government acts on our behalf to maintain our expectations. We pressure our Government into behaving so badly abroad that American civilians are now targets of hatred.
We are not "innocent" civilians. We are greedy and everyone knows it, except us. The rest of the world fears us, but they do not respect us.

When our country was truly great, when we followed our founding Fathers words of wisdom and our own Constitution, we were admired by the rest of the world. Our immigrants came here because they believed in our foundation of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. They came to this country to be Americans. I'm talking about our own ancestors. They changed the spelling of their (our) names, they changed their customs, they learned fluent English, they changed everything to become what, at that time, was known as “Americanâ€. In the beginnings they did not need welfare. They were a strong and determined people that only needed opportunity and work. They were successful in every way while building America, except one... Their expectations for the lifestyles of future generations was achieved, but it was set too high, too soon. We have had everything handed to us by those who came before us. And if something was left out, we have long since figured out how to “borrow†it, even further leveraging ourselves into a debt filled hole. Generally speaking, if it is not cheap, easy and convenient, we currently want no part of it.

Now we have Globalization, Ethnic Diversity, the list of “Politically Correct†phrases is endless. What is all of that? Do the words "Ethnic Diversity" really have a rightful place in the American vocabulary? Does it mean that Americans are no longer cohesive in the premise that we are all just Americans and proud to claim ourselves as such and act accordingly? It wouldn’t seem so... We are starting to see the cracks everywhere.
The Spanish language is now all over everything from menus to street signs to radio and TV adds. During the day(s) of 9/11 there were US Citizens who were dancing around reveling in the success of the terrorists. We have vast numbers of people who are willing to meddle with the US Constitution, the very document that has, so far, allowed us all to live the good life. We've all seen these types of things in some form or another. Our melting pot is not melting anymore...

In recent times, our immigrants often come from countries that we Americans have been exploiting for many years. Many of the new generation of immigrants do not want to be "Americans". They just want our freedoms and security, and some are coming into various levels of power with their own agendas aimed toward the betterment of "their" people, not Americans as a whole. They use their new-found "Freedom" to justify their unwillingness to melt in with the rest of us as our immigrant ancestors did. Why not? Because many have seen what a hard life really is, they have learned to do without. They do not like us, they do not respect us.

The road to improving America has not changed since America was born, we are just choosing to ignore it. That road is still paved with hardships, selflessness and inconvenience. It is paved by not only respecting ourselves, but our fellow Americans and the Constitution that binds us. It is paved by treating other countries and their people fairly. It is paved by understanding, and being honest with ourselves. It is paved by knowing that we have had it too good for too long at the expense of others. It is paved by earning the worlds respect instead of their fear. It is paved by letting go of the things that really do not matter. It is paved by seeking quality rather than quantity. It is paved with hard work and the willingness to accept the fact that we are not owed anything.

So here we are, at the end of my thoughts, sitting in our environmentally conditioned homes, eating whatever snack is supposed be “fat free†or “new and improvedâ€. We read and re-read these forums, getting all stirred up about the problems facing us. We wonder what we could do as individuals to right some wrongs and to change the downward trends at hand. I wish I knew, for I am a hypocrite, no different or better than the average Joe, mostly concerned with which toy I plan to pacify myself with next.
 
IMHO, the biggest problem we have now is that many people believe that this great nation owes them a free lunch. Period. They want to live like the wealthy but they don't want to earn a living that supports the lifestyle. The real disconnect is that everybody thinks that this country is so overflowing with wealth that every citizen (and every alien who can sneak in) should be able to live high on the hog even though they work at a car wash..... if they work at all.
 
Over-romanticizing history

In part I agree with you Dash, but I really do think you are over-romanticizing history a great deal.

When our country was truly great, when we followed our founding Fathers words of wisdom and our own Constitution, we were admired by the rest of the world. Our immigrants came here because they believed in our foundation of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. They came to this country to be Americans. I'm talking about our own ancestors. They changed the spelling of their (our) names, they changed their customs, they learned fluent English, they changed everything to become what, at that time, was known as “Americanâ€.

When exactly was this? I guess I don't understand what historical period you are refering to. Some immigrants came here to be American, others came to make money and go home. Some changed their names to fit in, a large number changed their names because of the bigotry and anti-immigrant sentiment of the population. But don't doubt for a second that there are still 100 year old neighborhoods in the United States filled with people who came over back in the "good old days" who still barely speak English, who follow their old traditions, etc.

Do the words "ethnic diversity" have meaning? Well, they meant a lot to Americans, who from our founding days judged and hated people based on their ethnic background. That is also a part of our history. Unfortunately the left has TOTALLY abandoned the idea that we should promote shared ideals. In that way I feel they have betrayed our chances of future success.

Our history is filled with examples of "trends" or "cultural changes" that went to excess. Political Correctness is an example of that. It was not a bad idea originally, and helped our society as a whole become more sensitive to areas where we had not been nearly as "moral" in our actions as before. However it has gone overboard. Proponents of PC should have declared victory long ago...and gone home. The battles that are left for them to fight are not as morally clear as their original ones.

One thing you SHOULD note about our history, and the history of the world, is that EVERY TIME there is a period of social upheaval it is ALWAYS outsiders who are blamed. Immigrants, foreigners, etc. are always portrayed as the enemy. You can find examples dating back to Rome.

As I say, I agree with some of what you write. Some of it, however, I find simply reflecting a tradition of blaming outsiders that happens whenever a society feels like social norms have shifted or collapsed
 
The problem isn't wanting more, it's wanting someone else to provide
it for you.

You're right, Dashunde: We rotten children of the Renaissance and the
Constitution and the Industrial Revolution should stop "exploiting"
other countries with the satanic snares of modern technological civilization.
Everyone will be very happy then, right? You seem to forget that people
in other nations also want and increasingly feel "entitled." I guess they've
caught the American Disease?

Prosperity and the welfare state have made some Americans soft--and soft
in the head. We need to re-focus on what made us the greatest country
on earth. I'm afraid that answer won't please too many liberals.
 
"Nice" is not a word that belongs in a serious dialogue about
political and social philosophy. Try that one on the Hurons.

"Civil," on the other hand, I wouldn't mind seeing more of. This
last era has been a great coarsening.
 
Cloudkiller - Some of it, however, I find simply reflecting a tradition of blaming outsiders that happens whenever a society feels like social norms have shifted or collapsed
When I wrote all of that I had no sense of blame whatsoever relating to our foreigners. In fact, I think that I was pretty much pointing the finger at us, the people who have been here a long time. If it did not read that way, I apologize.

Longeyes - The problem isn't wanting more, it's wanting someone else to provide it for you.
Exactly. And so far, others have been providing a lot of it for us, which is why they are resentful.

Cloudkiller - When exactly was this? I guess I don't understand what historical period you are refering to.
I'm refering to the immigrants that you and I are related to, the ones who stayed and built.
 
"Nice" is not a word that belongs in a serious dialogue about political and social philosophy. Try that one on the Hurons.
"Civil," on the other hand, I wouldn't mind seeing more of. This last era has been a great coarsening.

"Nice" has nothing like definite meaning; "civil" does.
 
No offense, but romanticizing history isn't the name for it.

I hate to tell you this, Dash, but the Founders and Framers weren't venerable icons who shat marble statues of themselves.

They were just as profoundly flawed as we are today.

Many owned slaves, and were more than willing to kill the dream that was American independence based on that alone.

Many were corrupt beyond belief.

Some of them HATED, with a supersized capital H, the Constitution, believing it to be the death of state's rights, and it was those men, and others who followed them, who with the Constitutionalists laid the ground work for the divisions that resulted in the Civil War.

Many of those who came to the Americas in the early days came here with the intention of establishing their cultures, their believes, and their religions as prime and at the expense of all others -- Roger Williams, founder of Rhode Island, fled the Massachusetts Bay Colony because his version of religion clashed with that of the Puritans.

There was actually violence between Puritans and Quakers in the Bay Colony, and later between Catholics and Protestants in Maryland.

As for immigrants, the Great American Melting Pot was largely a myth. Had it truly been a melting pot, we wouldn't have such legacies as Chinatown and Little Italy in many states, nor would there have been vicious, brutal, and repeated clashes between ethnic immigrant groups at various times.

There's a lot of VERY good in our history, but don't be too quick to deem the old days the better days.
 
No, we're not nice (I hope)

And we're not meant to be. When the Republic was founded, the vast majority of its citizens were yeoman farmers or self-employed artisans,a condition which had not obtained in any other country for many years before, and (regrettably) has not done so here in the last hundred years or so. You don't have to be "nice" if you're a free citizen; not an employee, not a tenant. You can do what you like (within law and decency) and say what you think!
 
Good points Mike and everyone, but I think I'm referring more to our late 1800's on up to WWII and a few years past. Of course there were plenty of problems prior.

I wrote all of that in one sitting without referencing anything other than my spell checker. It is intended to be more of an "impression" of our attitudes rather than a dissertation of factual history.
 
Dash,

Even if you take it from the late 1800s, you still have many of the issues about which I wrote, especially the immigration & ethnic issues.

The truly great waves of immigration didn't start until after the Civil War.

Corrupt politicians and businessmen continued to craft their vision of the American dream at the expense of immigrants AND natural and naturalized citizens.

It really boils down to a situation in which everyone's idea of the Ideal America and American Dream are vastly different, and sometimes those ideas and ideal clash.
 
Mike - It really boils down to a situation in which everyone's idea of the Ideal America and American Dream are vastly different..

Very right Mike, and I see that as part of the problem, we are too disorganized and we bicker about everything without settling anything... CCW is a good example, especially in Missouri. (The Legislators that we voted in passed a reasonable law, some folks just can't accept the new law, so now its in the courts. Frustrating to say the least. :banghead: )

I don't know about you guys, but I see our Judicial system meddling around in our lawmaking as a real problem, maybe even a threat.
 
Mike, I'm sorry, but I think the rot started around 1830.

All these bad things happened about then:

A. The Southern slaveocracy stopped being defensive about the "peculiar institution" and started touting it as a positive good thing.

B. People started arriving here in steamships.

C. Official, uniformed policemen were instituted, something previously unheard-of in English-speaking countries.

D. Women started wearing underpants.
 
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