At Long Last...S&W Mod 15 New Purchase...

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JW in Ohio

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After some time of casual searching, I bought a police trade S&W Model 15 (blue, 4") at a local dealer. It was actually grouped with a bunch of Model 10s at the same price, but I like the adjustable rear sight on the 15. I'm still getting to know it, but have a question or two. Dealer had 38 spl ammo in +p on sale. Is +p ammo considered the norm, and should I shoot it in this revolver or use only standard velocity ammo if available? Also wondering about date of manufacture. First 4 digits of serial # are 95k8. I am really excited about my first S&W revolver. The trigger is the nicest I've had, light and clean!
 
Your M15 was manufactured in 1981 per STANDARD CATALOG OF SMITH & WESSON by Jim Supica and Richard Nahas. ;)

:evil:
 
According to S&W any .38 special revolver, as long as it is stamped with a model number, is strong enough(And suitable for!)the firing of .38+P ammo(Occassionally!)but not on a continuous basis! Standard pressure .38 special's certainly would be easier on the model 15-but, mixing in some .38+P's once in awhile won't harm the gun! :D
 
38 Special is spec'ed by SAAMI to 17,000 CUP, and 38 Special +P's are currently spec'ed by SAAMI to top out at 18,500 CUP. AFAIK, your Model 15 should be fine with this modest increase in pressure.
 
I picked mine up about a month ago. Have yet to take it out for a test run. Travel every week and the weekends have been packed with family events. Gonna finally get it out after the IDPA match this weekend. We'll see, might have to classify with that baby in SSR...........
 
My early 60's Model 15-2 is my favorite revolver. I have shot all kinds of +P ammon in this revolver with no ill effect. The K-frame .38 will withstand the pressure.
 
You guys should just put those 15's in a box and forget about them. If you start shooting them you will have a new favorite and neglect lots of other guns you already have.......
 
I have a model 15-3 and when I got it I contacted Smith & Wesson directly to ask them about shooting +P ammo in it. They told me that it is fine to shoot such ammo in that particular model. I shoot whatever cheap ammo I can find which is mostly Winchester 130 grain at the range and my self-defense ammo is Speer Gold Dot 135 grain +P. This model 15 is the best revolver I have ever shot.
 
Damn! Another M15 off the market.

Seriously, great work in snagging one of these beauties. The Combat Masterpiece has all the balance and grace of the M10, but adjustable sights for precision range work. Wonderful wheelgun.

I've been trying to take one home for some time now. Somehow, I never seem to have the money in hand when I stumble across one and vice versa.
 
I was a little surprised when I began visiting these Internet forums and saw so many questions regarding +P .38 Special ammo. I always assumed the short answer was that if you had a Star, or Ruby, or some other gun that might be questionable as far as strength is concerned, then stay away from +Ps. But many shooters seem concerned about using this ammo in quality guns of recent manufacture* and I didn’t expect that. I saw many inquiries about K frame S&Ws using +P and I found it odd that anyone would worry about factory +P ammo in such a gun. Then I started seeing postings from owners of .357 Magnum revolvers asking if +P .38 Special ammo would harm their guns.

Come again? I don’t know what caused such a mystique to surround +P to make people with Magnums think it’s too much for their guns, but it strikes me as overblown all out of proportion. The fact is that +P isn’t “all that” anyway. Winchester and Remington list the velocity of the standard 158 grain .38 Special at 875 FPS, and the +P is listed at 925. The 125s are 925/975 respectively. That's only 50 FPS difference between +P and standard. Why is everyone so terrified of +P?

The factory ammo made back in the 1960s and 1970s was hotter than that made today. The +P is really about what the .38 Special JHPs should be in standard form. So why the less powerful loadings? Because there are some guns out there that are not well made and because of liability concerns the ammo makers must load their products to pressures that are safe in these lower quality guns. They mark the full-power loads as +P to give them cover should someone hurt himself shooting this ammo in a Spanish S&W knock-off of dubious quality.

This same situation occurs with the .38 Super cartridge. The original loading for the Super was a 130 FMJ at nearly 1,300 FPS. But the Super is the same size as the old .38 ACP, just loaded to higher pressures so the ammo makers started fretting over some yahoo stuffing Supers into his 1905 Colt in .38 ACP and spreading parts all over the range. That’s why Super cases were nickel and .38 ACP were brass until a few years ago when they apparently stopped doing this. I guess there’s no need any longer since factory Super ammo now clocks about the same as .38 ACP. The last box I checked ran 1,120 FPS, only 40 more than the ACP. They have down-loaded the Super to nearly the same level as the ACP. No lawsuits. Of course, the Super isn’t so… super… any longer, is it?

Check out a reloading manual from the early '70s. Loads will be listed for the .38 Special pushing a 125 JHP to 1,200 FPS. Sort of makes that factory +P at 975 seem less intimidating, doesn't it? Now, of course, new manuals don't include such listings. Now they stop at about the same levels as the factory +P. Why? Lawyers and lawsuits. The reloading manual publishers are just as scared as the gun and ammo makers about being sued. Fear of lawsuits is the same reason the gun makers caution against the use of +P ammo. They also say don’t use reloads.

I load 125s at 1,100 in my .38 Special carry gun. This load came from a 1970 manual. I have shot many rounds of it through both K and J frame guns and they seem to work just fine. Recoil is slightly more pronounced than with standard ammo, but the cases fall from the cylinder with no sticking.

Certainly, using a gun causes wear. A gun is a machine and using any machine will cause it to wear. Using hotter ammo will likely accelerate the process to some degree. But a quality gun from S&W or Colt or Ruger will not blow up with +Ps. It will possibly wear a little faster, and I doubt if anyone could predict how much, but I think the added wear on a good gun will not be all that much. The gun would probably still last longer than the man who owns it.

I admit to paranoia about warm loads in an alloy-framed gun. I do not have any alloy revolvers but if I did I would stick to standard ammo. In a steel gun of good quality I have no concerns at all about +P on a regular basis.

Just my opinion based on personal experience and research. There are differing points of view. Some replies to the +P question are quite adamant about avoiding regular use of this ammo. Some forum members have accused me of being irresponsible in recommending the loads I mentioned. Of course, I am not recommending anything, only stating what I do. Also, all of the loads I use came from reputable reloading manuals. If the loads were safe in 1970 I don’t see why they aren’t safe, now. Make your own choice. If you are in any way uncomfortable with +Ps then stick with standard loads. You are only losing 50 FPS, anyway.

* The manufacture and tempering of steel was imprecise before around 1930 or so. Any of my guns made in the 1920s or earlier get reduced loads. Note that early S&Ws, those made before around 1918, had cylinders that were not tempered at all.
 
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Thanks gentlemen...

Thanks for all the great replies. I'm getting to like it more and more. Next on the list is a set of original wood grips. There is something very cool about walnut and blue steel
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Nice 15. Yeah, the rubbers have to go.

Here's my M15. It came from the local sheriff's department when they switched to 9MMs a few years ago. I thought that the faux pearls looked good on the nickeled gun.

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I have a model 14 with a 4" heavy barrel that I thought sure was a model 15 until I actually saw the "14" stamped into the frame. It is more accurate than the 6" model 14 and I like the balance better too.

Here they are together:
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Here is a shot of the muzzle ends to show the difference in the weight of the barrels.

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Elmer- Yes, the stocks are fake but they look nice (unless you don't care for pearl which apparently you do not) and they were inexpensive. I have had genuine pearl (see the M&P at top in photo) but they are fragile and chip easily so the fake ones are more practical, too. This M15 is the only S&W I currently own with non-original stocks (I sold the real ones in the pic and replaced them with original S&W wood stocks) and the pearls are a bit ostentatious. But, it's my gun, I like it, and nobody else's opinion really matters.

I dislike rubber grips because of the looks (although, unlike you, I don't insult another man's choice and only agreed with the owner's statement that he wanted to change them) and because my hands smell like rubber for hours after holding them. But many shooters favor them for practical reasons and I say please yourself.

BTW- I do not dismiss something because a pimp may or may not have used it. Pimps also use women and I'm certainly not ready to abandom them because of this fact. :D

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That guy says....
I was a little surprised when I began visiting these Internet forums and saw so many questions regarding +P .38 Special ammo

Me too.

I have always held the K frame Smith in .38 Special to the 158gr./1000fps level and after many many thousands of rounds, I have never had a problem with it. Like you, I will also load the 125s to the 1100 fps level with no problems at all.

I chronograph what I shoot so I know approximately what is taking place in the gun.

I would only caution that 1000 fps with a 158 gr. bullet in a .38 Special calls for a fairly slow powder. I wouldn't shoot that load if I had to use Bullseye, Red Dot, AA2, or any of the other faster powders, but with 2400, or AA9, or one of the slower powders, Blue Dot, for example, it is noooooo problem in a model 14 or 15.
 
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