ATF aids hunt for illegal guns in San Bernardino

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Desertdog

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At the bottom of the article is this;
REWARD offered

$500: The sum offered for information leading to the arrest of people who illegally possess firearms.

Call: 800-ATF-GUNS (283-4867). Tipsters may remain anonymous.



ATF aids hunt for illegal guns in San Bernardino
http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_D_atf04.3cd3227.html#


By PAUL LAROCCO
The Press-Enterprise

SAN BERNARDINO - A carload of gang members rolls up to a rival on a street corner. On the other end of town, two parolees get into a fight.

If both incidents end in homicide, chances are there will be a common denominator: the gun tucked under the driver's seat or hidden in a waistband was illegally possessed.

San Bernardino Police Department officials say their officers can't possibly track all the illicitly obtained guns alone. But a team of federal agents trained in weapons investigations will help.

Ten special agents from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives will begin work in San Bernardino this month as part of a nationwide effort that is targeting the cities with the worst gun-violence problems.

The Violent Crime Impact Team will offer money to people who report those who have illegal guns. It also will use cutting-edge technology to log and track the seized weapons, officials announced Tuesday.

At a news conference attended by San Bernardino Mayor Pat Morris, San Bernardino County District Attorney Michael Ramos and Rep. Joe Baca, D-Rialto, federal agents and local police said their collaboration is a step toward reducing assaults, robberies and homicides involving the use of sawed-off shotguns and semiautomatic pistols sold underground.


"They say every gun tells a story," said John Torres, special agent in charge of the ATF's Los Angeles field office. "And through good, old-fashioned gumshoe work, we're going to see what story these guns tell and pursue it."

An example of the team's work can begin with something as simple as a patrol officer's traffic stop, Torres said. The officer may find a handgun and seize it as evidence. Without the ATF's help, the department might not have the resources to do anything more than charge the person with illegal possession of a firearm.

But with access to federal databases that can connect guns to shell casings and projectiles found at crime scenes, Torres said, police might find a murder suspect previously unknown.

"We're going to work smarter and harder," Torres said.

Story continues below

A collection of firearms was on display.
He said all the city's licensed gun dealers will be investigated to determine whether they are complying with the law.

From 2004, when the ATF launched impact teams in cities such as Baltimore and Los Angeles, through 2006, the program has yielded more than 10,000 arrests and 11,100 recovered firearms, officials said. The program now has operated in 29 U.S. cities, many of which have seen decreases in gun-related homicides during the ATF's presence.

In San Bernardino, the ATF was welcomed enthusiastically. Police Chief Michael Billdt called the partnership an obvious extension of the ongoing collaborations with the California Highway Patrol for extra patrols and with Morris' Operation Phoenix crime-fighting plan.

Billdt said the ATF agents would work with robbery, homicide and narcotics investigators. They will be involved in covert operations in the city's most dangerous and gang-ridden neighborhoods, he added.

Arrests won't be prosecuted only in state court, where convictions can result in sentences served at crowded local prisons that are accessible to friends and family.

As an added deterrent, U.S. attorney's office officials said some defendants would be tried in federal court and subjected to harsher minimum sentences that would send them to facilities out of state.

"We're going to send a message," said George Cardona, acting U.S. attorney in Los Angeles.

Morris demonstrated an action that he said he hopes the program can wipe out. Choosing from a table of weapons that had been seized by police, Morris lifted a .22-caliber handgun and tucked it into his waistband -- as a gang banger would, he said. He said 42 of the 46 slayings that police classified as murders in 2006 were committed with guns.

"These guns are the cancer of America's urban society," Morris said.

They also have caused close calls for Baca's family, the congressman said Tuesday. Several months ago, his wife was startled by bullets fired into the Rialto home directly next door, wounding a man inside.

The congressman said the story illustrates that gun violence doesn't just affect the gang members and criminals who target each other. After the incident, his wife wanted, he said, but she changed her mind when she realized that police were dealing with it.

REWARD offered

$500: The sum offered for information leading to the arrest of people who illegally possess firearms.

Call: 800-ATF-GUNS (283-4867). Tipsters may remain anonymous.
 
From 2004, when the ATF launched impact teams in cities such as Baltimore and Los Angeles, through 2006, the program has yielded more than 10,000 arrests and 11,100 recovered firearms, officials said. The program now has operated in 29 U.S. cities, many of which have seen decreases in gun-related homicides during the ATF's presence.

And the decrease in total murders was zero. Brilliant!
 
I missread the title and thought the sturmtruppen of the BATFEces:barf: were doing something useful for once and aiding the hunt for Illegals....as in aliens.:eek:


....chances are there will be a common denominator: a gun tucked up uunder the drivers' seat of hidden inside a waistband was illegally possessed.

No. Chances are the common denominator will be gang members that shouldn't have been released in the first place.:cuss::banghead::fire:

Once again the BATFEces:barf: go after the lowest risk.
 
I always hear 'they should be enforcing the laws we have, not creating new ones'.

Sounds like they are doing just that.
 
I always hear 'they should be enforcing the laws we have, not creating new ones'.

Sounds like they are doing just that.
Maybe, but it depends on who they are arresting, gang bangers or dealers with paperwok with minor mistakes.
 
But with access to federal databases that can connect guns to shell casings and projectiles found at crime scenes, Torres said, police might find a murder suspect previously unknown. (John Torres, special agent in charge of the ATF's Los Angeles field office.)


Really??? They must be doing some "bullet fingerprinting." Wonder how many times they've made a match? If they had any success the word would be all over the MSM, with demands for a set-up like New York and Maryland have been using - with no luck. What we see here is some more window dressing.

The answer to "gun crime" is to lock up the criminals.:banghead:
 
Really??? They must be doing some "bullet fingerprinting." Wonder how many times they've made a match? If they had any success the word would be all over the MSM, with demands for a set-up like New York and Maryland have been using - with no luck. What we see here is some more window dressing.

The answer to "gun crime" is to lock up the criminals.


Habitual criminals do 99% of the shootings around here. The problem is that there are usually witnesses who are afraid to come forward, or testify.

The fingerprinting of bullets and casings refers to the ones they dig out of the victims or pick up off the ground at the crime scene. If they can pick up some felons and match their guns to the bullets and casings found at other shootings thats a good thing.

But then we all also know agent schmuckatelli finds it easier to cite a gunshop for an abbreviation, than to capture a dangerous criminal to make his quota for the month.
 
If they can pick up some felons and match their guns to the bullets and casings found at other shootings thats a good thing.

Sure... But I'm betting that nothing like that is happening. If it was the local papers and T.V. would be full of it.

On the other hand if certain Democrats in the Legislature wanted to set up a system like they have in New York and Maryland... :scrutiny: :uhoh:

The fact it hasn't worked wouldn't make a bit of difference. :banghead:
 
"ATF aids hunt for illegal guns in San Bernardino "

Good for them.


Illegal guns is a very broad term in CA. It can be a gun with an 11 round magazine (can an 11th round be smashed into it?) otherwise legaly possessed. It can be a gun with a combination of any of a number of "assault" characteristics (which someone can quickly accidentaly do with aftermarket items, becoming a felon without ever realizing it, and includes many grey areas that allow for harassment through interpretation.)

It can be them investigating people that bought off list( off the banned CA list) lowers of things like AR/AK knockoffs, or completed rifles with magazines that were permanently attached, but could be converted to what is legal in most states, and is an evil assault weapon here.

It can be any number of things that are much easier to do against the firearm owners in a database (all handguns registed in CA, and all long guns can quickly be added to a database through records as was done in the DC sniper situation to investigate all owners with a similar weapon in that situation) than to the criminals that are using firearms not linked to them. They are going to focus on things they can track and trace, things that are documented. That is the easiest way to accomplish the most in the shortest time. This is easier to do with registered owners and shops than with criminals. Of course criminal is relevant because if any of those shops or private owners made any minor mistakes they are criminals themselves. So I guess removing firearms from the hands of "criminals" would still be being accomplished.

Any time they start going after objects and not people leading criminal predatory lifestyles you get less than ideal results. You could go after the predatory people, and remove the illegal arms they are found to possess, and clean up the situation. However the method often employed is the reverse. Go after the arms, and catch the people you find along the way. That often captures less threats to society and a mix of the problem individuals as well as individuals completely outside the problem caught up in the system. Creating more felons out of non predatory individuals that will become indocrinated in the criminal way of life while serving thier sentence and increasing the number of threats we face as a society once they get out.
 
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Really??? They must be doing some "bullet fingerprinting." Wonder how many times they've made a match? If they had any success the word would be all over the MSM, with demands for a set-up like New York and Maryland have been using - with no luck. What we see here is some more window dressing.
Just because you haven't seen mention of ATF, NIBIN, and/or IBIS in your local paper or on CNN doesn't mean they aren't developing leads and helping solving cases using the NIBIN/IBIS system. ATF and NIBIN has been a valuable investigative tool for the last 5 years.

In fact the first conviction of defendant where NIBIN was a key part of the investigation was August 2002:

http://www.atf.gov/press/fy02press/field/082802la_nibin.htm

Isn't google grand? ;)
 
"Illegal guns is a very broad term in CA..." etc.,etc.etc.,etc.,etc.

You could have saved yourself a LOT of typing. Did you even read the same article I did? It's in the first post.

"federal agents and local police said their collaboration is a step toward reducing assaults, robberies and homicides involving the use of sawed-off shotguns and semiautomatic pistols sold underground."
 
"Illegal guns is a very broad term in CA..." etc.,etc.etc.,etc.,etc.

You could have saved yourself a LOT of typing. Did you even read the same article I did? It's in the first post.

"federal agents and local police said their collaboration is a step toward reducing assaults, robberies and homicides involving the use of sawed-off shotguns and semiautomatic pistols sold underground."

Reducing crimes with firearms means reducing the number of firearms "illegaly" owned in CA. Illegaly owned firearms are any number of firearms including legaly owned ones that through a technicalty are illegal in some way or another. Whether it is an error on a form, or an error in modifications or parts or transport, etc.
If they bust someone in any way whether severe or a minor technicality, and then remove that firearm from possession it is viewed as a success in removing illegal firearms in circulation or possession which is viewed as a step towards reducing crime. This applies to upstanding members of society, normal average folks with no criminal intent or lifestyle. They get support and a lack of opposition by giving the perception it is only targeting and applied to certain types of individuals.

Any firearm removed from ownership is seen as one less firearm that is capable of being used in a crime, and thus is a victory. You should feel fortunate you live in a location that allows you to naively feel otherwise and be less scrupulous in your understanding of press releases. So don't bash me for your lack of understanding in politics and press releases in CA.
 
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