Australian "cultural" issues....

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fallingblock

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As a reminder of what a concentrated government assault on the very concept of RKBA can achieve in a relatively short time, I offer the following:

'Mild-mannered' man had arsenal fit for war
By Steve Butcher
July 1, 2005

Happiness for Peter Ivan Bateson wasn't just a warm gun. It was a
personal arsenal that included machine-guns, semi-automatic pistols and
40,000 rounds of ammunition.
A quiet, mild-mannered bachelor, Bateson had armed himself with a
$200,000 collection of weaponry that shocked Australian Crime
Commission investigators.
An equally stunned Melbourne magistrate said yesterday that Bateson, a
former security guard, 49, could have "waged a short war".
The Melbourne Magistrates Court heard that raids on a friend's Dingley
shed in July last year found seven sealed army trunks containing
pistols, shotguns and rifles. Investigators later found more weapons at
Bateson's St Kilda apartment.
In all, police seized nine semi-automatic pistols, six machine-guns,
four pump-action shotguns, 15 semi-automatic rifles, five rifles and
numerous parts and accessories from firearms prohibited since the 1996
Federal Government's national buyback.
More than 400 assorted magazines and about 40,000 rounds of various
ammunition were also seized.
The court heard that Bateson, a long-time Armaguard officer, had been a
licensed gun enthusiast for 30 years. He led a law-abiding life until
he ignored the buyback ( :eek: ) for his registered weapons.
Documents tendered by the prosecutor, Senior Constable Remo Antolini,
said Bateson bought illegal weapons from associates in gun clubs, the
firearms industry and firearms dealers.
Defence lawyer Bernie Balmer said Bateson had never offended, had no
psychiatric problems and planned to open a display centre for his
collection.
Mr Balmer said Bateson would routinely sit down after dinner to
dismantle, oil, repair and reassemble his guns, some of them historical
pieces.
Bateson pleaded guilty to 76 charges, including being a non-prohibited
person possessing unregistered weapons and trafficking unregistered
firearms.
Magistrate Paul Smith accepted that Bateson, who had been sacked from
Armaguard, was a gentle, law-abiding citizen. But his obsession with
firearms had ultimately posed a threat to the community because they
could have "fallen into the wrong hands".

Bateson was convicted and put on a community-based order with 150 hours
of unpaid work.
His collection was seized by police who planned to use parts of it for
training, forensic purposes, sale or display.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/mildmannered-man-had-arsenal-fit-
for-war/2005/06/30/1119724753464.html
 
City folk in general don't take kindly to firearms.

Australia has never had an equivalent to the 2nd amendment.

Most firearm owners are rural, and are a minority of the population.

So you get crap like this.

Still, some people at least have a few 'illegals' tucked away waiting for better days.

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
 
I love how it is roundly proclaimed that the guy has never been a problem to anyone in his life, and is not a problem now, but for some reason they don't go into, it just is taken as a given that him having guns is bad and cannot be tolerated.

It's like, WHERE is the big mandate to not let him have guns?! No one has shown why it was a problem? He was a guy who harmed no one, and he had loads and loads of guns to do so if he wanted.

If anything has been demonstrated, it is the fact that there IS no reason to take his guns away. They've shown just how safe and stable the man is!

-Jeffrey
 
They shot Crocodile Dundee.

Not that idiot Paul Hogan, I mean the original character that CD was based on.

He really existed until they came for his guns. He refused and they killed him.


Austraila sucks.

G
 
Actually, Faithless, I think this goes to prove that in the land of the blind, the eyed man is NOT king. He is something, at best, to be pitied and put up with. At worst, he is to be ridiculed, droven off, or destroyed. After all, he's constantly making crazy claims that have absolutley no substantiation to those who are normal (i.e. blind). :scrutiny:
 
Australia sucks.


Just the opposite. When I was much younger I dropped everythingin my life here in the states and moved to Australia for a while, and in some ways it was the best time of my life. While I agree that their gun laws are awful, Australia is a great place with great people and after I get my PhD I am probably going to try and immigrate there.

Australia is much safer than the US, and, in some respects, has better laws respecting individuality.
 
Austraila sucks.
What a ridiculous statement. No, Australia (A-U-S-T-R-A-L-I-A) does NOT suck. The country's gun laws may suck, but, on the whole, it's a beautiful country populated by some wonderful people. Not to mention that the Aussie women not only don't take themselves nearly as seriously as American women do, but tend to have a much better sense of humor ...
 
How safe is Australia

According to a story in The Courier Mail of Queensland, a United Nations-sponsored survey found that "Australia has the worst prevalence of crime among 17 industrialised countries."

From the story:

Federal Government statistics show increases in crimes against people, rather than property.

"That's the basic picture in Australia at the moment – we're getting more violent," said Dr Tim Prenzler, head of the School of Criminology and Criminal Justice at Griffith University. "It's not a pretty picture."

http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/s_ploy2.jpg

http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/s_ploy2.jpgHe said that, within Australia, Queensland was better than the Northern Territory but worse than Victoria.

The 2000 International Crime Victims Survey used a telephone survey to assess the prevalence and incidence of crime in industrialised countries.

About 30 per cent of Australians told researchers they had been victimised one or more times in 1999, compared with 26 per cent in England and Wales, 21 per cent in the US and 15 per cent in Japan.

England and Wales had the highest incidence of crime, the survey showed.

Property crimes such as breaking and entering and vehicle theft traditionally accounted for much of Australian crime, but that is changing.

There were 145,420 violent crimes in 1996. By 2002, the figure had grown to 198,722 – and 80 per cent were assaults.
Related Stories:
 
Australia, nice place to visit, just don't move there if you like your guns.


I think that visiting and financially supporting a place that disrespects rights is something to be avoided if possible.

You wouldn't have gone to Nazi Germany because of the scenery being so beautiful, and disregard the atrocities committed there, right?

Grand Inquisitor can go there and keep it. If he doesn't want gun rights, fine. :rolleyes:

But to say that the place is "safe" is kinda stupid. For one thing, a place is only as "safe" as what is POSSIBLE to happen there. There is nothing about a particular "place" that makes it "safe." You might say that the middle of football field when the stadium is closed and no one is there is "safe." BUT... does that mean that at random, some dude couldn't drive his car through one of the gates and run you down in the middle of the field?

That's the fallacy of thinking that a place is "safe."

People think of a church as safe, particularly right in the middle of the congregation during mass. Does that mean a gang of terrorists could not storm the place and hold everyone hostage and begin shooting them? Of course not. So it's not "safe" -- it's just that harm there may be "unlikely."

Now, as regards Australia, I have read plenty of stories about how it is growing more violent, and that roving bands of youths gang rape women (a problem that I read was on the increase), and violent crime is increasing at a startling rate, as it is in England -- both places have gun bans, so go figure.

Grand Inquisitor says that Australia is "much safer than the US (sic)" but that's like saying that I'm safe from burning to death just because I'm not currently on fire. Maybe I'd consider myself safe from burning to death if I were wearing fire retardant clothing and had a team of people standing around with fire extinguishers trained on me.

To say that one is safe from violent crime just because no one is currently violating you is absurd. Your current status is no guarantee against what may be committed upon you in any future timeframe.

-Jeffrey
 
I think that visiting and financially supporting a place that disrespects rights is something to be avoided if possible.

We seem to have forgotten that the people of Australia have no 2nd Amendment to fall back on. From what I'm reading here and there the population is starting to awaken to the fact that gun control is not the answer to crime and criminals and with any luck will continue to expand this thinking and someday reverse these laws. Don't blame the people of Oz, their Gov't caught them sleeping at the wheel. Don't forget the same thing (sleeping at the wheel) happened a few years back which resulted in a national AWB, fortunately, even though it took 10 years, we managed to change that thinking and get this AWB reversed. I think Fallingblock's point is to not let it happen to us here (again) because in no time they'd be coming for your and MY guns just like they did to Mr Bateson. "Socialist Hellhole" or not I have some research I'd like to conduct there "down under" and plan to complete it sometime in the relatively near future. With any luck I'll be sharing afternoon tea with Mister Block some day soon...

One lump or two Mr Block?

:D
 
I think that visiting and financially supporting a place that disrespects rights is something to be avoided if possible.
We seem to have forgotten that the people of Australia have no 2nd Amendment to fall back on.
The Second Amendment is not the source of our rights. The fact of our birth is the source of our rights.

HTH, HAND, etc.
 
I had seen a source a while back that said violent crime in Australia had peaked around 1999 or 2000, but had started to decline since then. I did not see anything on how that happened though. They could have redefined their statistics, but I don't know. I haven't seen anything on recent statistics since then. Maybe someone else has better information.

Overall, I think a lax attitude on criminal enforcement and punishment have just as bad an effect on crime as loss of gun rights. Lack of consequences from the victim as well as from the police/courts. The problem is that the same BS attitudes that say the average citizen can't be trusted with a gun also seem to translate to being nicer to convcits and trying to rehabilitate rather than punish them.
 
The real shame is that had Mr. Bateson just moved to the US he'd just be another law abiding citizen with a firearms hobby. :(

I feel bad for the guy ... the same way I feel bad for Jews who saw what was coming in Germany in the 30s but stayed anyway.


Australia is much safer than the US...
One of the most oft repeated lies about the US and crime.

http://ruljis.leidenuniv.nl/group/jfcr/www/icvs/data/i_VIC.HTM

Based on the stats, you'll see that the US and Australia aren't much different in terms of overall crime rates ... big difference is that in the US these rates are trending downward, in Australia they are going up.

And that data is over 10 years old. I'd love to see the current numbers for both.
 
As some members have already said, we do not have a second ammendment (sp?) to fall back on in Australia. We did not have a war to break free of british control and we didn't have a civil war. This means that guns are not as ingrained into our culture, sadly. Even in 1996, at the age of 8 I knew that guns do not kill on their own, thanks to the fact that both my parents were from the country, where guns are accepted. Australia is extremely urbanised, with most of the population in cities, meaning that they decide how it goes, because they have the numbers to vote.

Lots of people i've talked to believe that guns are bad, which is total stupidity, and they also falsely believe that America is far more dangerous than Australia. People don't care about guns enough over here in the cities. If the population of the cities could be shown the light on this issue there would be a slim chance to restore the RKBA in australia. Of course, Australia is primarily a two party system, with the "Liberal party" and the "Labour party" being very similar, and with each election being pretty close. Neither of these parties cares much about the gun issue, especially John Howard's Liberal party, which enacted the 1996 and 2002 buyback schemes.

Australia seems to be a lost cause, take note of what happened to us, and make sure it doesn't happen to you.
 
The Second Amendment is not the source of our rights. The fact of our birth is the source of our rights.

Quite correct but the Constitution and Bill of Rights acknowledge and supposedly protect those rights. Places like Oz do not have legislation that protects those rights. They cannot point at a piece of legislation like the 2nd Amendment and question the legality of their Gov'ts taking their means of self defense.

Australia seems to be a lost cause,
I'm sorry to hear that.

take note of what happened to us, and make sure it doesn't happen to you.
Point well taken.
 
Australia is a beautiful place......

with much more rapidily deteriorating personal freedoms than the U.S. :barf:

As 280PLUS surmised:
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"I think Fallingblock's point is to not let it happen to us here (again) because in no time they'd be coming for your and MY guns just like they did to Mr Bateson.
*********************************************************

It was less than ten years ago that most Australians were NOT particularly anti-gun in their outlook.

All it took was ONE mass-shooting at Port Arthur, several weeks of intense MSM demonization of guns and "the gun culture" and one miserable little sod of a hoplophobic Prime Minister.... :fire:


Spiphel Rike is absolutely correct with his points:
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"Lots of people i've talked to believe that guns are bad, which is total stupidity, and they also falsely believe that America is far more dangerous than Australia."
*********************************************************

Hardly a week goes by here without some nitwit MSM journalist (Phil Adams is a good example) lamenting "The American Gun Culture" and the "blood in the streets" image of the U.S.. :mad:

It is concerted and prolonged disinformation and it is not unintentional.
:scrutiny:


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"Australia seems to be a lost cause, take note of what happened to us, and make sure it doesn't happen to you."
*********************************************************

Yes - PLEASE!

Y'all will recall that I am a YanKiwiOzzie :) .

I note that many - perhaps the majority of - U.S. school children are no longer able to name many of the Founding Fathers or even relate roughly what the issues leading to the American Revolution were.

With such a misinformed/disinformed population, and given the level of anti-gun activism eminating from domestic U.S. organizations AND international
organizations such as I.A.N.S.A. and Soros' OSI -

even an outstanding codification of human freedom such as the U.S. Bill of Rights isn't a guarantee of retaining our rights.

I know...preaching to the choir again! :rolleyes:
 
All it took was ONE mass-shooting at Port Arthur, several weeks of intense MSM demonization of guns and "the gun culture" and one miserable little sod of a hoplophobic Prime Minister....

And this from the same(?) Gov't that back in the late 30's commisioned the late Ion Idriess to write a "how to" series of guerilla warfare books for the ordinary citizen in response to the expected invasion by Japan. I'm sure Mr Idriess is out there somewhere jumping up and down ripping his hair out over what they've done to his beloved Australia.
 
According to the stats on the Australian Coalition Against the Death Penalty website(they're anti-gun btw) in 1915 Australia had 1.8 homicides per 100,000 people.
0.8 homicides per 100,000 people in 1941
2.4 homicides per 100,000 people in 1988
2.04 homicides per 100,000 people in 1999
1.7 homicides per 100,000 people in 2003

So although Australia's homicide rate has decreased a little in the last few years,it's not nearly as low as in 1941 when they didn't have the draconian laws that they have now.
 
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