Australia's gun ban and violent crime....

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fallingblock

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http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,12275515-2,00.html

Violent crime blights Australia

By Tuck Thompson
February 17, 2005

WHILE the US is the murder capital of the world, Australia still has
the worst prevalence of crime among 17 industrialised countries, according
to a UN-sponsored survey.

Federal Government statistics show increases in crimes against people,
rather than property.

"That's the basic picture in Australia at the moment we're getting
more violent," said Dr Tim Prenzler, head of the School of Criminology and
Criminal Justice at Griffith University. "It's not a pretty picture."

He said that, within Australia, Queensland was better than the Northern
Territory but worse than Victoria.

The 2000 International Crime Victims Survey used a telephone survey to
assess the prevalence and incidence of crime in industrialised
countries.

About 30 per cent of Australians told researchers they had been
victimised one or more times in 1999, compared with 26 per cent in
England and Wales, 21 per cent in the US and 15 per cent in Japan.

England and Wales had the highest incidence of crime, the survey
showed.

Property crimes such as breaking and entering and vehicle theft
traditionally accounted for much of Australian crime, but that is
changing.

There were 145,420 violent crimes in 1996. By 2002, the figure had
grown to 198,722 and 80 per cent were assaults.

Youth unemployment, alcohol and the active, mobile Australian lifestyle
could be contributing factors to the violence, according to
criminologists.

University of Queensland criminologist Christine Bond said one problem
was that growth in southeast Queensland had changed the structure of
neighbourhoods.

"Where there is high turnover, you wouldn't have people to go to for
help," Dr Bond said. "You don't have the community ties that help
reduce
crime."

Recent crime research has tended to focus on property crime, which has
decreased because of more sophisticated alarm and surveillance systems.

Researchers have no way of telling whether the recent spate of violent
crime in Brisbane is a trend or a spike, because good data takes time
to collect and study.

"We might need another year or two to see if it's a trend," Dr Bond
said. "That's the problem with all this trend analysis you need time,
and that's no good for policy-making."

She said violent crime needed closer study, especially to examine types
of victims, circumstances and locations.

In 2002, 38 per cent of violent crimes occurred in private dwellings
and 23 per cent happened on the street or footpath, government figures
show.

Crime also centres on drinking, holiday and recreation spots and has
its impact on younger people.

Surveys are considered a better way to gauge crime victimisation
because many victims do not make reports to police, and the statistics of those who do, vary, because jurisdictions apply different rules and
definitions.

The ICVS is conducted by Leiden University in Holland.
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Say! You don't suppose the sharply (since 1996) reduced presence of firearms in homes and the prohibition on firearms ownership for 'self-defence' has any bearing on this phenomenon, do you? :scrutiny:
 
What are you saying, fallingblock? That making people defenseless encourages criminals? Nah, must be some NRA lies again :rolleyes:
 
What are you saying, fallingblock? That making people defenseless encourages criminals? Nah, must be some NRA lies again
That can't be right, there are laws against committing crimes, that alone should be enough to make anyone not want to do such things.
 
crime over here is prolific, a guy in the city was killed for his shoes the other day. I was arguing with the anti's at my school this morning, here's some snippets of what they said "we've got enough crime as it is without people supporting it by legalising guns." when i pulled out the "very few legal guns were ever used in crimes" i got the "you know what? I'm sick of you, I don't give a SH*T". This country is screwed, that represents the attitude of a lot of people.

I wonder how this country will ever get these rights back again, if at all.
 
when i pulled out the "very few legal guns were ever used in crimes" i got the "you know what? I'm sick of you, I don't give a SH*T"
Ahhh yes, the ancient tradition for the loosing side of an argument. Sticking ones fingers and the ears and screaming "I CAN'T HEAR YOUICAN'THEARYOUICAN..." Sad, Australia could be such a paradise and beacon of Liberty.
 
How many people in Australia had guns before the ban? How often were guns used in self-defence before the ban? What other factors may have caused a rise in crime? The story gives figures from 1996 and 2002 and there has been an increase - had there been an increase up to 1996 as well?
 
Hi St. Johns....

"How many people in Australia had guns before the ban?"
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Until the 1980's, firearms were relatively easy to obtain in most Australian states. Usually the payment of a modest fee for a permit at the local police station was all that was required.


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"How often were guns used in self-defence before the ban?"
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As is the situation in the U.S., the actual discharge of a firearm is seldom necessary for a successful defensive use, and these are rarely officially recorded. I am unaware that any reliable quantitative data exists on defensive use of firearms in Australia.

Certainly the legal proscription against owning a firearm for the purpose of self defence has drastically curtailed the legal possession of firearms in the community.

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"What other factors may have caused a rise in crime? The story gives figures from 1996 and 2002 and there has been an increase - had there been an increase up to 1996 as well?"
*********************************************************

The usual....inner city gang activity, revolving door justice system, a surging drug culture, unassimilated immigrants, particularly youth in the urban areas, lack of parental supervision of juveniles.

Perhaps in some ways similar to the U.K.'s rising crime dilemma.

I sincerely believe that an armed citizenry could defend themselves effectively, rather than simply waiting for the police to take a report.

That's the Yankee in me, but there are Australians who agree with me. :D
 
So Fallingblock, do you think it is possible to turn things around in Australia?
 
Seems to be a pattern here - take away a person's ability to defend himself and predatory people loose what little respect they may have had for them... And act out.

Duh. :banghead:
 
Well, Cool Hand Luke.....

"Whatever happened to the famous Australian respect for self-reliance. You'd think that keeping arms for self-defense would be highly respected there."
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I don't want to flog the deceased equine, but there is a very pronounced
cultural divide in Australia between urban and rural inhabitants.

Australia is, sadly from our perspective, overwhelmingly a nation of urban-dwellers.

Some 85% of the population live within a 50 km radius of a major city.

Vote-wise, (and given the modified parliamentary political system used here) the stereotypical self-reliant Aussies of the rural inland are politically a disappearing minority.

Haven chosen to live out here in the definitely NOT urban inland, I am honored to know quite a number of these Australians, and they categorically reject the premise that ordinary people are not to be trusted with firearms.

Unfortunately, the urban majority of this nation are quite happy to deny the minority their firearms, on the addled premise that guns somehow "cause" crime. Rebecca Peters is an outstanding example of the urban Australian anti-gun fanatic, although the P.M. John Howard isn't far behind her in his outlandish firearms phobia.

From my many discussions with serving and retired rural police as well as station owners and managers, and based on their experience, one thing is clear:

The possession of a firearm by an intended victim certainly provides a powerful disincentive for the perpetrators of crime.

The "urban fringe" (my term for the vast majority of the Australian population - as all the major cities are coastal and therefore on the edge of the Australian landmass), are, on the whole, quite culturally distinct from the Australians of the inland, and generally have no positive experience of firearms. The Australian broadcast and print media are vehemently anti-gun.

Short answer:

There are still admirably self-reliant and rugged rural Australians.

Unfortunately they are politically an insignificant minority.


NMshooter:
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"So Fallingblock, do you think it is possible to turn things around in Australia?"
*********************************************************

Sadly, no.

Both major political parties are institutionally opposed to the private ownership of firearms.

The nominally conservative coalition party of John Howard imposed the most pointless and draconian legislation from 1996, initially in response to the media circus surrounding a lone (unlicenced) deviant's shooting spree at Port Arthur in Tasmania. Of late they'll use any shooting to attack law-abiding gun owners.

Both minor parties are even more anti-gun than that with the Greens leader Bob Brown being obsessive in his hoplophobia.

We are at best giving up what remaining firearms ownership privileges as slowly as possible. :(

With little effective political representation, shooters are at the mercy of the majority in this "democracy".

The founding fathers of the U.S. were a lot more prescient than those of Australia when it came to codifying rights, especially of minorities. :mad:


Standing Wolf:
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"Socialist parasitism never is."
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As always, few words but well - targeted. ;)


yorec:
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"take away a person's ability to defend himself and predatory people loose what little respect they may have had for them... And act out."
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That observation has been confirmed by my experience.

Interestingly enough, Rebecca Peters again serves as an example with her assertion that the presence of a weapon only "escalates violence". :rolleyes:

As do so many urban trendies, she speaks from a position of cherished ignorance blended with starry-eyed idealism.

Thanks for the graphs, Siegfried!

Anti-firearms legislation began to appear in most Australian states from the mid-80's on. Western Australia has had more severe legislation in place since the early 1920's, with little or no demonstrable crime-reduction benefit from it.
 
Big sigh

Reminds me of why I packed up and moved.

Australian by birth,
American by choice,
Texan by the grace of God.

Cheers,
Mike.
 
Well, Fallingblock, if you ever need a place to move to we could use more shooters here in New Mexico.
 
Well Fallingblock.

You have my sympathy. however there is nothing you or any other Aussie coul have prevented the disarming of the populace. The major stumbling block faced by you and your countrymen to firearms freedom is that thanks to your lineage, you are subjects of the "Crown?" while we are CIIZENS of the U,S. endowed with certain INALIENABLE rights not subect to be revoked.
Not your fault, when you get enough of it, move to Florida, buy all the guns you want and do your part to reduce Crime.

JPM
 
Good ideas, all.....

"Australian by birth,
American by choice,
Texan by the grace of God."
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What part of Texas, Crikey?

My first job out of University was at Pearsall, 54 miles south of San Antonio.
Central Australians remind me a lot of South Texans. :)



NMshooter:
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"Well, Fallingblock, if you ever need a place to move to we could use more shooters here in New Mexico."
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Now there's a state I also have some history with.

I attended E.N.M.U. in Portales for three years and worked at N.M.S.U. at Las Cruces for two before coming out this way.

Great place, and lots of opportunity for shooting. I could see us retiring there.


JPM70535:
*********************************************************
"...when you get enough of it, move to Florida, buy all the guns you want and do your part to reduce Crime."
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What Australia needed was a written Bill of Rights with rights enumerated. Then it would have been a lot tougher for one knothead P.M. to strip them away by imperious pomposity. :(

Florida is my official U.S. residence...St. Lucie Co. - where my sister and nephews live. I'm planning a visit soon, catch up with family and go and buy a couple of guns.....just because I can. :D
 
What part of Texas, Crikey? My first job out of University was at Pearsall, 54 miles south of San Antonio. Central Australians remind me a lot of South Texans.

I'm in Dallas now. I was living for a couple of years down on the border in McAllen. Texas suits me down to the ground. Been in the USA since 2000.

If you're ever in down, do drop us a line. You always have a place to crash here if you need it.

Cheers,
Mike.
 
I find this snippet interesting:

"Youth unemployment, alcohol and the active, mobile Australian lifestyle could be contributing factors to the violence, according to criminologists."

Unemployment? I subscribe to several financial newsletters. They all comment about how well the economies of Australia and New Zealand are doing. The Aussie dollar is a recommended buy, along with commodity companies. All in all, it sounds like there is plenty of work available.

Active, mobile? How can it be moreso than in the US? Or Europe?

Art
 
The people who are "unemployed" that cause the crimes are the ones who don't take jobs when available anyway. The welfare state underclass of all races, creeds and cultures.
 
Thanks, Crikey....

I'll look forward to meeting a genuine "Australian/Texan". :)

Texas is right up there for my list of favorite states as well,

especially Art's corner of it.


Too true, Art:
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"All in all, it sounds like there is plenty of work available.

Active, mobile? How can it be moreso than in the US? Or Europe?"
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These folks are apologists for the failure of their system to deal in any meaningful way with a serious problem.

Crime in "The Lucky Country"? :eek:

Every unemployed citizen, legal resident or refugee in Australia is eligible for full-time welfare, with the condition that one must "look for work". Despite some tightening-up over the past few years, the dole remains a valid career option for many young people, particularly if they are female and not averse to having kids (which of course perpetuates the cycle).

My S.O. is a mid-level employee for Centrelink,
the Australian Government's "welfare corporation".

They hand out amazing piles of money all year, every year, and there is an identifiable 'underclass' of recipients who have spent all, or the majority of, their lives on a benefit. No hope, no pride, no reason to contribute to their society.

It's clearly a system that appears "kinder and gentler" at first glance, but one that is creating some serious problems of its own, as carebear notes.
 
Much of our crime problem in the US is in the areas where we have "children having children" and grandmothers of age 28. No education, no marketable skills, no ambition and thus no hope. Just the dole and the strong belief in "We're entitled."

Art
 
Much of our crime problem in the US is in the areas where we have "children having children" and grandmothers of age 28. No education, no marketable skills, no ambition and thus no hope. Just the dole and the strong belief in "We're entitled."

My belief is that this is the third incarnation of slavery in the U.S.
 
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