SKSgunnut101
Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2007
- Messages
- 38
Is $450 for a auto ordinance m1 carbine with a folding stock and hi cap mags, a good deal? Thanks in advance
auto ordinance m1 carbine
- Thread starter SKSgunnut101
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ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Used?
Is this a used carbine?
If it's new, this is a good price.
If it's used, it's still a good price, by a somewhat smaller margin.
Either way, it's not bad.
If you decide you hate the stock later, you can always change that.
Get the carbine.
Get two and send me one.
Is this a used carbine?
If it's new, this is a good price.
If it's used, it's still a good price, by a somewhat smaller margin.
Either way, it's not bad.
If you decide you hate the stock later, you can always change that.
Get the carbine.
Get two and send me one.
SKSgunnut101
Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2007
- Messages
- 38
I don't think it's ever been fired. It's in good condtion. Is there anything wrong with a folding stock.
Blackfork
Member
Not USGI
Auto-Ordnance is a post- WWII civilian maker. That's not an M1 Carbine, its a civilian copy, and usually not a very good one. I'd say it's priced about twice what it ought to be.
Auto-Ordnance is a post- WWII civilian maker. That's not an M1 Carbine, its a civilian copy, and usually not a very good one. I'd say it's priced about twice what it ought to be.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Auto Ordnance
Auto Ordnance (owner of the Thompson brand = Tommy Gun) is currently owned by Kahr Arms.
Their M1 Carbine is current production and is made to the mil spec.
Please see http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_aom110_f.html for specs.
These are new manufacture and are full-warranty covered.
Sales Support: 508-635-1450, 508-635-1449.
MSRP is over $700, street is around $600-$650 depending on whether walnut furniture is used.
We've got guys here on the board that own them.
Do a search. They can tell you how these shoot.
Auto Ordnance (owner of the Thompson brand = Tommy Gun) is currently owned by Kahr Arms.
Their M1 Carbine is current production and is made to the mil spec.
Please see http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_aom110_f.html for specs.
These are new manufacture and are full-warranty covered.
Sales Support: 508-635-1450, 508-635-1449.
MSRP is over $700, street is around $600-$650 depending on whether walnut furniture is used.
We've got guys here on the board that own them.
Do a search. They can tell you how these shoot.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Folding Stock
That's gonna be a personal thing.
Folding stock is better for handling in close quarters, better for compact stowage.
Not as pretty.
May not be as comfortable, but that's up to you.
That's gonna be a personal thing.
Folding stock is better for handling in close quarters, better for compact stowage.
Not as pretty.
May not be as comfortable, but that's up to you.
Zullo74
member
I think what he meant was that no GI M1 carbines were manufactured after WW2. GI Garands were manufactured up until the M14 production was started in 1957.
M2 Carbine
member
That sounds like a decent price. I'd buy it for that.
I've seen Kahr Carbines but haven't shot one. They look well made. There is a advantage that the Kahr has over the old GI Carbines. Assuming that Kahr is making good barrels, a new Kahr should be more accurate than most GI Carbines. Many/most GI Carbines have barrels that were shot little but received a lot of wear from steel cleaning rods.
Kahr claims that they use all new manufactured parts, but their new Carbine I saw years back had a used GI M2 bolt.
If you get the Carbine and intend shooting it a lot, invest in a good bolt tool and a couple extractors, ejectors and springs. They can be picked up at a big gun show fairly cheap.
The extractor is the weakest part in the rifle. Some people never break a extractor but having a spare might save you a day at the range.
I've replaced two broken extractors, in two different Carbines, in the last several months.
Keep your eyes open at the gun shows and you eventually might run across a nice stock in the $20-$30 range.
Just last week I found a very nice M2 stock for $30.
I've seen Kahr Carbines but haven't shot one. They look well made. There is a advantage that the Kahr has over the old GI Carbines. Assuming that Kahr is making good barrels, a new Kahr should be more accurate than most GI Carbines. Many/most GI Carbines have barrels that were shot little but received a lot of wear from steel cleaning rods.
Kahr claims that they use all new manufactured parts, but their new Carbine I saw years back had a used GI M2 bolt.
If you get the Carbine and intend shooting it a lot, invest in a good bolt tool and a couple extractors, ejectors and springs. They can be picked up at a big gun show fairly cheap.
The extractor is the weakest part in the rifle. Some people never break a extractor but having a spare might save you a day at the range.
I've replaced two broken extractors, in two different Carbines, in the last several months.
Keep your eyes open at the gun shows and you eventually might run across a nice stock in the $20-$30 range.
Just last week I found a very nice M2 stock for $30.
blackwinch
Member
M1 carbine
Maybe blackfork is confusing the AutoOrdnance carbine with the Universals...
If the rifle is mil-spec it sounds good but try, to get it for less cash... like 300 or 350 tops. If it is not mil-spec like the Universals were stear clear as you would be taking your life in your hands, you don't need a bolt embedded in your forehead.
Read M2 Carbines advice carefully, it sounds like he knows his stuff about these rifles!
Maybe blackfork is confusing the AutoOrdnance carbine with the Universals...
If the rifle is mil-spec it sounds good but try, to get it for less cash... like 300 or 350 tops. If it is not mil-spec like the Universals were stear clear as you would be taking your life in your hands, you don't need a bolt embedded in your forehead.
Read M2 Carbines advice carefully, it sounds like he knows his stuff about these rifles!
steveracer
Member
How about actually answering his question?
The answer, in short, is GO BUY IT.
It's a very good weapon. It was a great design, and this particular copy is well executed. I have one, and it shoots very well, and has been totally reliable with Wolf and MagTech ammo, total of about 500 rounds of each. When you get it, run a snake through the barrel and load up a lot of mags. The barrels are Green Mountain. You will find it very easy to run out of ammo with it, because it's a little addictive. Recoil is negligent, and the sights are very good. The gun weighs in at 5.5 lbs, and currently 15round magaziens are at $13 each. 30 rounders are hard to find that actually work well, although they are out there, and cost about $22 each. .30 carbine is a 110 grain bullet at about 2000 fps. Not exactly weak, no matter what people will tell you. The folding stock isn't the most comfortable thing to have against your face, but you can add material to the wire frame to make it more ergonomoc.
Auto Ordinance did a very good job of building a good rifle that runs right, and at $450 I'd buy ten of them.
Steve
The answer, in short, is GO BUY IT.
It's a very good weapon. It was a great design, and this particular copy is well executed. I have one, and it shoots very well, and has been totally reliable with Wolf and MagTech ammo, total of about 500 rounds of each. When you get it, run a snake through the barrel and load up a lot of mags. The barrels are Green Mountain. You will find it very easy to run out of ammo with it, because it's a little addictive. Recoil is negligent, and the sights are very good. The gun weighs in at 5.5 lbs, and currently 15round magaziens are at $13 each. 30 rounders are hard to find that actually work well, although they are out there, and cost about $22 each. .30 carbine is a 110 grain bullet at about 2000 fps. Not exactly weak, no matter what people will tell you. The folding stock isn't the most comfortable thing to have against your face, but you can add material to the wire frame to make it more ergonomoc.
Auto Ordinance did a very good job of building a good rifle that runs right, and at $450 I'd buy ten of them.
Steve
Blackfork
Member
Copies of the real thing.
I base my opinion of the Auto Ordnance on the Plainfield and Universal Carbines. None of them have held their price or have a good reputation for reliability over the years.
And second- why buy a copy? Why not get the real thing? The CMP is on the cusp of releasing thousands of USGI M1, not to mention that nearly any gunshow in my area has two or three M1 Carbines that could be bought for around 450.00.
And no, I don't consider a Springfield Armory M1 to be a real M1. It's a civilian copy and a fairly expensive one. I handled a CAI Garand the other day....another copy.
The CMP has had and will have again, plenty of M1s for half the price of a Springfield Armory copy. The CMP South Store currently has Danes for 475.
M1As? They are nice. But they aren't M14s. I taught Iraq-bound troops to maintain and shoot M14s taken out of the Anniston Depot at the beginning of the war. The M1A is a nice civilian copy and it has the distinction of being all we can get. The CMP is recalling all the State Organization M14s that were issued all these years. Texas is just sending theirs back.
I'm saying all of this as someone who shoots these rifles in NM competition and hunts with them. Just a week ago I was in a deer stand shooting doetags with a Springfield Armory M1A, a close COPY of the M14. I was second in the M1 Carbine TSRA Championship and second place in the Garand Championship last year. I have five CMP M1 Carbines and four CMP Garands. I shot a doe with a Garand last year and this year.
My rifles have to SHOOT. I prefer the real thing to a copy. The Auto-Ordnance may be a nice gun, but if your interest is tweaked by authentic military weapons, MY humble and limited opinion is that you might STILL want the real thing after you get an AO in the safe, so I would hold out for it.
No Auto Ordnance slogged ashore through the black sand at Iwo, was shot in the snow at Bastogne, walked the MSR back from Koto-Ri in Korea, or parachuted into France. There is no TELLING where my USGI M1s and Garands were but they all did something. They are still doing things.
It's a fake enough world out there. Get the real thing when you can.
Some of my Carbines were in the TSRA Calendar last month laying on a yellow Gadsten Flag.
I base my opinion of the Auto Ordnance on the Plainfield and Universal Carbines. None of them have held their price or have a good reputation for reliability over the years.
And second- why buy a copy? Why not get the real thing? The CMP is on the cusp of releasing thousands of USGI M1, not to mention that nearly any gunshow in my area has two or three M1 Carbines that could be bought for around 450.00.
And no, I don't consider a Springfield Armory M1 to be a real M1. It's a civilian copy and a fairly expensive one. I handled a CAI Garand the other day....another copy.
The CMP has had and will have again, plenty of M1s for half the price of a Springfield Armory copy. The CMP South Store currently has Danes for 475.
M1As? They are nice. But they aren't M14s. I taught Iraq-bound troops to maintain and shoot M14s taken out of the Anniston Depot at the beginning of the war. The M1A is a nice civilian copy and it has the distinction of being all we can get. The CMP is recalling all the State Organization M14s that were issued all these years. Texas is just sending theirs back.
I'm saying all of this as someone who shoots these rifles in NM competition and hunts with them. Just a week ago I was in a deer stand shooting doetags with a Springfield Armory M1A, a close COPY of the M14. I was second in the M1 Carbine TSRA Championship and second place in the Garand Championship last year. I have five CMP M1 Carbines and four CMP Garands. I shot a doe with a Garand last year and this year.
My rifles have to SHOOT. I prefer the real thing to a copy. The Auto-Ordnance may be a nice gun, but if your interest is tweaked by authentic military weapons, MY humble and limited opinion is that you might STILL want the real thing after you get an AO in the safe, so I would hold out for it.
No Auto Ordnance slogged ashore through the black sand at Iwo, was shot in the snow at Bastogne, walked the MSR back from Koto-Ri in Korea, or parachuted into France. There is no TELLING where my USGI M1s and Garands were but they all did something. They are still doing things.
It's a fake enough world out there. Get the real thing when you can.
Some of my Carbines were in the TSRA Calendar last month laying on a yellow Gadsten Flag.
blackwinch
Member
carbine
Good deal blackfork! That's why I suggested he try for a lower price...The CMP doesn't have any carbines avialable at this time, and who knows when?
YIKES!!! Just checked GunsAmerica and found all GI Carbines hovering around 1K and NIB Auto Ord going for $600...
Good deal blackfork! That's why I suggested he try for a lower price...The CMP doesn't have any carbines avialable at this time, and who knows when?
YIKES!!! Just checked GunsAmerica and found all GI Carbines hovering around 1K and NIB Auto Ord going for $600...
steveracer
Member
My point exactly.
And the AO carbine will have a warrantee. Kahr actually has pretty decent customer service, and will fix the AO carbine faily quickly if it goes TU.
It didn't slog ashore at Iwo. Not one civilian AR-15 has seen duty in the hands of US soldiers in GWOT. Are they all crap because of this?
In short, your reasoning for him to not buy this is plain garbage. My 1911s aren't USGI, but believe me, they all run right, and shoot straight. Nearly every rifle or shotgun out there is a copy of something else. Is my Norinco a piece of crap because it isn't a Colt? Good luck convincing me of that. Same for Springfield, Rock River, etc.
A Fulton Armory M1 Carbine is about $1100. That is arguably the very best M1 Carbine money can buy. No history, mind you, just really sweet. If one could be had for $800, it would be a steal, and I would dive on it. Try finding a new condition USGI anything for less than $1000. Good luck.
The Original Poster asked if this was a good bargain, and it is, plain and simple. CMP will not have M1 Carbines for the same price that are great shooters and look nice. They will have the really pretty ones auctioned for over $1k.
And the AO carbine will have a warrantee. Kahr actually has pretty decent customer service, and will fix the AO carbine faily quickly if it goes TU.
It didn't slog ashore at Iwo. Not one civilian AR-15 has seen duty in the hands of US soldiers in GWOT. Are they all crap because of this?
In short, your reasoning for him to not buy this is plain garbage. My 1911s aren't USGI, but believe me, they all run right, and shoot straight. Nearly every rifle or shotgun out there is a copy of something else. Is my Norinco a piece of crap because it isn't a Colt? Good luck convincing me of that. Same for Springfield, Rock River, etc.
A Fulton Armory M1 Carbine is about $1100. That is arguably the very best M1 Carbine money can buy. No history, mind you, just really sweet. If one could be had for $800, it would be a steal, and I would dive on it. Try finding a new condition USGI anything for less than $1000. Good luck.
The Original Poster asked if this was a good bargain, and it is, plain and simple. CMP will not have M1 Carbines for the same price that are great shooters and look nice. They will have the really pretty ones auctioned for over $1k.
DonP
Member
Kahr/Auto Ord Carbines
I looked for a USGI M-1 carbine for over two years. I hit the stores and the gun shows once or twice a month.
What I found were "mixmasters" selling for $600 and up, most pretty beat up. The only gun i found below $500+ was a late model Universal (series III) selling for $425 and the owner thought that was a bargain.
If you can find a USGI Carbine in halfway decent shape for under $500 grab all of them you can afford.
The CMP latest word is that the Carbines won't be out until April or May now. A lot of rumors and conjecture on the condition and price, but no real facts to back any of it up so far. When they do come out I'll probably grab one or two depending on the price.
FWIW, Kahr/Thomspon/Auto Ord was a WWII subcontractor making receivers for the M-1 Carbine. The new Auto Ord Carbine I finally bought ($545 out the door, walnut stock) shoots pretty well and has the warranty.
It's complete early WWII GI spec; flat bolt, wood forearm, with interchangeble parts. In fact I'm switching from the type 1 to the type 3 barrel band to lock up the receiver and the stock a little better.
The Kahr isn't available with a folding stock now, as far as I know, so the stock may be a bubba modification. You can pick up a GI carbine stock repro from the CMP for the carbine and have the best of both worlds, a new accurate barrel, warranty receiver and authentic GI wood.
I looked for a USGI M-1 carbine for over two years. I hit the stores and the gun shows once or twice a month.
What I found were "mixmasters" selling for $600 and up, most pretty beat up. The only gun i found below $500+ was a late model Universal (series III) selling for $425 and the owner thought that was a bargain.
If you can find a USGI Carbine in halfway decent shape for under $500 grab all of them you can afford.
The CMP latest word is that the Carbines won't be out until April or May now. A lot of rumors and conjecture on the condition and price, but no real facts to back any of it up so far. When they do come out I'll probably grab one or two depending on the price.
FWIW, Kahr/Thomspon/Auto Ord was a WWII subcontractor making receivers for the M-1 Carbine. The new Auto Ord Carbine I finally bought ($545 out the door, walnut stock) shoots pretty well and has the warranty.
It's complete early WWII GI spec; flat bolt, wood forearm, with interchangeble parts. In fact I'm switching from the type 1 to the type 3 barrel band to lock up the receiver and the stock a little better.
The Kahr isn't available with a folding stock now, as far as I know, so the stock may be a bubba modification. You can pick up a GI carbine stock repro from the CMP for the carbine and have the best of both worlds, a new accurate barrel, warranty receiver and authentic GI wood.
davera
Member
AO Carbine
I've been pretty happy with my AO, bought last year. All the nice WWII carbines I was seeing were more money for a fairly beat up selection. Mine works OK at least as good as a friends Inland. IMO, it's a real M1 Carbine by any definition, just not one made during WWII.
I've been pretty happy with my AO, bought last year. All the nice WWII carbines I was seeing were more money for a fairly beat up selection. Mine works OK at least as good as a friends Inland. IMO, it's a real M1 Carbine by any definition, just not one made during WWII.
Start buying them and selling them here for that price + shipping as a public service or add another $100 for profit. Heck, get half a dozen and I can refer you to a dealer that would take all of them for the $100 bump to you. Either way you'll sell everyone you can post. Prices for GI M1 Carbines are $600 + here in East Tennessee.
iamkris
Member
That is one of the most patently ridiculous statements I´ve heard in a long time. It is as inappropriate as
I base my opinion of the Fords on the reputation of Chevy and Chrysler
--or--
I base my opinion of the DSA FALs on the Century and Bubba-built FN FALs
One of these things is not like the other...
As for the original question, that is a superb price...worst case, assuming that it is reliable, is that you can sell it for a profit.
Flogger
Member
The Kahr product will shoot circles around a GI carbine and is made on modern accurate CNC machinery.
The only problem I have heard about them is that the headspace is a little tight for some of the most out of spec ammo but in every way that can be measured they are made better than the haphazardly built "broad side of a barn" accuracy I have experienced from USGI models containing a wild mix of parts "as issued".
I'd say the GI model has more in common quality wise with the Universal than the Auto-Ord
When USGI M1 Carbines were $69 and you got a coffee can of ammo for free with them I could tolerate 12 inch groups but for $1000 I better be able to hit something smaller than a beach ball in my own backyard
The only problem I have heard about them is that the headspace is a little tight for some of the most out of spec ammo but in every way that can be measured they are made better than the haphazardly built "broad side of a barn" accuracy I have experienced from USGI models containing a wild mix of parts "as issued".
I'd say the GI model has more in common quality wise with the Universal than the Auto-Ord
When USGI M1 Carbines were $69 and you got a coffee can of ammo for free with them I could tolerate 12 inch groups but for $1000 I better be able to hit something smaller than a beach ball in my own backyard
nero45acp
Member
My AO/Kahr M1 Carbine has been 100% reliable through about 2K rounds. However, with CMP about to release somewhere around 35K USGI M1 Carbines, I think I'd wait to see what's the condition and prices of the CMP carbines before I bought the used AO/Kahr.
nero
nero
mrmeval
Member
They are very nice looking guns. They are brand new but not like the post WWII commercial ones everyone gripes about.
If it's new it's a good price.
If it's used much less so but check it out carefully and make sure it comes with all the items it's supposed to and the original box. If anything is missing talk them down or go find a new one.
If it's new it's a good price.
If it's used much less so but check it out carefully and make sure it comes with all the items it's supposed to and the original box. If anything is missing talk them down or go find a new one.
I own a Kahr/AO Carbine and love it.
I bought a Kahr/AO carbine NIB and the only grip that I have is the mag was a refinished, pitted POS. The Carbine itself has about 350 rds through it, mostly S&B but some Wolf and a box of Lake City GI and a box of Korean surplus, too. The only thing it failed on was my JSP handloads from the 70s.
I collected USGI carbines from the late 60s through 1992 when I sold 32 of them. Five of the 32 USGI carbines I owned had receivers that were worn to the point of being non-conforming to print. Barrel condition of the 32 guns was all over the map. All but two of them were non-imports, bought mostly from older retired guys or estates. They were ex-DCM or bought at Sears, Firestone, or other retailers in the late 50s and through the 60s. The only carbine that I kept was a low-S/N Universal because it was the most reliable of any carbine that I owned at the time. Many of the USGI carbines would FTF at least once or twice a mag. Some would FTF much less frequently, but still did. In the mid/late 80s there was a big resurging interest in Carbines with the Blue Sky and other import guns hitting the market. With those came a renewed interest in "correctness" because of the huge stock of surplus NOS parts on the market at that time. A cottage industry sprang up where import guns would be disassembled and the import-stamped used barrels would be removed and NOS barrels installed along with other "correct" parts to "match" the receiver mfr and the S/N range. Then these would be rephosphated and sold at $750-$1200 depending on the mfr, to satisfy the collector demand for "the real thing" in "original" condition.
I cringe when I hear/read someone recommend a USGI carbine over a new production Kahr/AO as a "shooter." The reason? The Kahr/AO is just that, NEW. And it comes with a warranty. The majority of the USGI carbines, the ex-Italian ones at the CMP included, have been well used, and even over-used.
The majority of the USGI Carbines at gun shows and on auction sites have been picked over for desirable/valuable components and maybe given a "quick wash" re-phosphate job to "put a new dress on an old whore."
I'll keep my early Universal and my new Kahr/AO, thank you very much.
And a new Kahr at any price under $600 is worth it, IMO. $450 is a steal, again IMO.
Noah
I bought a Kahr/AO carbine NIB and the only grip that I have is the mag was a refinished, pitted POS. The Carbine itself has about 350 rds through it, mostly S&B but some Wolf and a box of Lake City GI and a box of Korean surplus, too. The only thing it failed on was my JSP handloads from the 70s.
I collected USGI carbines from the late 60s through 1992 when I sold 32 of them. Five of the 32 USGI carbines I owned had receivers that were worn to the point of being non-conforming to print. Barrel condition of the 32 guns was all over the map. All but two of them were non-imports, bought mostly from older retired guys or estates. They were ex-DCM or bought at Sears, Firestone, or other retailers in the late 50s and through the 60s. The only carbine that I kept was a low-S/N Universal because it was the most reliable of any carbine that I owned at the time. Many of the USGI carbines would FTF at least once or twice a mag. Some would FTF much less frequently, but still did. In the mid/late 80s there was a big resurging interest in Carbines with the Blue Sky and other import guns hitting the market. With those came a renewed interest in "correctness" because of the huge stock of surplus NOS parts on the market at that time. A cottage industry sprang up where import guns would be disassembled and the import-stamped used barrels would be removed and NOS barrels installed along with other "correct" parts to "match" the receiver mfr and the S/N range. Then these would be rephosphated and sold at $750-$1200 depending on the mfr, to satisfy the collector demand for "the real thing" in "original" condition.
I cringe when I hear/read someone recommend a USGI carbine over a new production Kahr/AO as a "shooter." The reason? The Kahr/AO is just that, NEW. And it comes with a warranty. The majority of the USGI carbines, the ex-Italian ones at the CMP included, have been well used, and even over-used.
The majority of the USGI Carbines at gun shows and on auction sites have been picked over for desirable/valuable components and maybe given a "quick wash" re-phosphate job to "put a new dress on an old whore."
I'll keep my early Universal and my new Kahr/AO, thank you very much.
And a new Kahr at any price under $600 is worth it, IMO. $450 is a steal, again IMO.
Noah
22/22mag
Member
Service on the M1 carbine is great.
New Kahr M1 carbine would not shoot some old off brand ammo... other ammo including Wolf shot fine.Called Kahr they sent a pre-paid pick up kept rifle 4-5 weeks returned with new barrel and polished throat and extra mag.No charge..
After market folding stock.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/skinnygun/IMG_0002-2.jpg
New Kahr M1 carbine would not shoot some old off brand ammo... other ammo including Wolf shot fine.Called Kahr they sent a pre-paid pick up kept rifle 4-5 weeks returned with new barrel and polished throat and extra mag.No charge..
After market folding stock.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/skinnygun/IMG_0002-2.jpg
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