BAD HUNTING . . . AND WHEN TO SAY "WHEN"

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S&Wfan

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I've been in this club for over five years and need to get something off my chest.

The long-time President of the club is an elderly, retired guy who, sadly, really needs to hang it up as a hunter. He also lives ajacent to the club and literally hunts every morning and night during deer season.

I was told when I joined that he was a "snap" shooter who hurriedly shot at any deer that moved, and this proved to be true . . . as he historically left MANY wounded deer in the woods, season after season.

We got to dread hearing his gun go off, especially at dusk . . . for this would mean that everyone would be out trampling through the woods for hours, trying to find a spot of blood and a wounded deer. Most times . . . we couldn't find the ones he poorly hit with his 30.06.

LAST NIGHT . . .

I had to go out to the club last night to pick something up from inside my camper trailer. It was dark when I got there. Almost immediately the president came over to ask for help tracking a deer, so I smiled and changed into my outdoor gear . . . dreading the hours typically coming up that I hadn't planned for.

He's in deteriorating health and his diabetes his REALLY affecting his vision . . . yet he chose to hunt a tower stand on a food plot that's got a long view in two directions.

When we got to the spot, he said, "The FIRST one I shot at was way out there (pointing to a spot about 200 yards away), but I think I missed that one."

Asking him about details, I was told this first one was walking TOWARDS him when he cranked out that long range shot!!! WHAT BAD HUNTING! I was stunned.

Then, he said, "Then I saw two others come out, about fifty yards away, and I'm pretty sure I couldn't have missed it."

He took me to the spot he wanted us to look for blood . . . at a range of about ninety yards, NOT fifty. When I mentioned this fact he said, "Hell, I don't know how far it was. I can't see that well anyway!"

At least this deer was broadside when he shot it . . . although it WAS walking at ninety yards when he quickly fired.

Naturally . . . even with several people looking, we could find no blood.

Maybe he missed both of 'em . . . but I doubt it.


THEN . . . he told me about another deer he couldn't find earlier in the week!

THREE FREAKIN' DEER WASTED . . . on a club where the deer have been so pressured into going nocturnal this year that all 20 members have not taken a single deer in over a half a month!


SORRY GUYS . . . I HAD TO VENT!

WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN A HUNTER GETS SO OLD, AND WHO ALSO LACKS PROPER SPORTSMANSHIP, TO CONVINCE HIM IT IS TIME TO HANG IT UP?


Actually, there is no good answer to this question . . . for the guy exists ONLY to hunt deer . . . and kills as many as he can . . . and very sadly, also causes incredible pain and suffering for many others who suffer the effects from his poor shooting.


Sorry for the rant!
 
sounds like some people next to me,MD rifle last saturday,and so far they have shot 15 times,2 confirmed kills,3 don't know if I hit them or not deals,the rest are misses,:cuss:.the first deer was that they killed was shot in the ass at 47 yds according to the dead eye's guesstimation.If I was you I would start a mutiny.
 
A guy in our hunting group who has been asked not to come out with us this year shot at 6 deer and took 2. He never took anything less than 3 shots per deer. He says most of the first shots were taken within 30 yards. The last one he bagged was just wasted. He gut shot it and it started running about, missed, shot out the front quarters, missed, missed, then shot out the hind quarters. As we were helping him track, he said it was a pretty big deer. Turned out to be a 70lb nubbin. This is also the same guy who used his scope as his "binoculars" and put myself and another hunter in our group "under glass".

There is so much of that kind of "stuff" going on out there that it makes me no wonder why some people look so poorly on gun deer hunters. The rest of us are more discrete in telling our stories, but not these guys - they talk at the top of thier lungs about all the "deer that got away".

***sigh***
 
This is a tough issue... not at all unlike the problem of when an elderly relative is no longer capable of driving. Logically, it's easy... if the person no longer has the necessary skills and judgement, then they're done. In reality, it's not so easy.

Close friends and relatives are best positioned to initiate the discussion. However, you need to have some kind of back-up plan in case that fails. How far are you willing to go? Will you push to have him expelled from the club? Do you feel strongly enough to leave the club yourself? Will you no longer help him "find" his wounded deer?

A good friend has some family members with whom he hunts. This season, it became clear to him that the eldest member shouldn't be in the woods with a gun anymore. He's not willing to cause undue strife within the family, so he's not going to push the issue very hard... but neither will he hunt with them any longer. That's his line in the sand.

I've got another friend who is a member of a small hunting club (about 10 guys, all longtime friends). When it became clear that one of the gentlemen was no longer capable of hunting safely and effectively, they sat down and had a long talk with him. It was difficult all the way around and there were a lot of hard feelings. However, during the spring and summer, the guy had a lot of time to ruminate on the situation. The following fall, he still came to deer camp, but this time just to cook, play cards and have some beers with his friends. He missed the hunting, but there were enough other activities to keep him happy. Now, several years later, he's the official camp cook and remains an integral part of deer season for everyone.
 
Was this guy ever actually a decent hunter in the past?
Maybe he's been like this all his life, and nobody spoke up.
 
There are some guys that view hunting more as warfare than the art of taking an animal in a clean and ethical manner.

We had some "hunters" on our family farm. Running shots, 200 yard shots (shotgun or muzzle loader). They had shot at a minimum of a deer per day 10 days into the season and hadn't recovered any. IIRC, we found 7 dead deer in two sections. One was a very mature buck that was well, well over 225#. I shot a 213# buck. This one made it look small.

It seems this mentality is rapidly diminishing, but someone that's older may still cling to the past.

Guess you have to weigh the cost of losing a member vs losing all those animals.
 
he doesn't seem too stubborn to help find his deer which is a good sign. I'd lightly mention some people are bummed some of his deer might have been lost and offer to hunt with him. I might be way off but he might spring at the chance. Deer get saved, his family won't worry with an eldery man in the woods alone and he could have some company.
 
It's not a matter of being elderly, it's a matter of being stupid.

I would bet, that testing would reveal that better than half of the deer hunters that come out on opening day of gun season:

1. Only shoot their deer rifle once a year.
2. Could not hit the vital area of a deer off hand over 50% of the time at 100 yards.
3. Would not have it enter their minds to use the prone position for long shots.
4. Don't know how to accurately estimate range.
5. Don't know how much their projectile of choice drops at 200 and 300 yards.

Ohio had it's first deer season fatality on opening day this year. The accident occured before legal hunting time when it's still dark and when the guns are suppose to be unloaded.

Since I'm one of the few Ohio deer hunters that knows the value of binoculars, I've gotten so observe some interesting things such as Mr. Fussbudget about 350 yards away who kept paceing around his hunting area. Nothing but a very mentally challenged deer would have come anywhere near him. I also got to observe the buck that came out of a fence line about 800 yards away and out into a field one or two minutes before legal hunting time ended. Then the buck left and I saw why; two hunters walking the perimeter of the field apparently oblivious to the buck's brief presence and oblivious or uncaring of the fact that they were no longer supposed to be hunting.

I prefer hunting with guns but the stupidity in gun season has driven me to take up bow hunting. The challenge weeds out a lot of the riff raff and no one is going to be able to put an arrow through my heart from 200 yards away.

If a problem with bad hunters is occuring on gun/hunting club grounds there are several solutions:
1. Have a lottery and limit the number of hunters that use the area each year.
2. Have a mandatory hunting class for those that wish to hunt there.
3. Require members who wish to hunt to pass a marksmanship test.
 
Wow! I admit to being astounded by the experiences recounted on this thread. here in South Africa virtually all hunting is on privately owned land or concessions. game farmers will not allow one to hunt alone. there is always a tracker in attendance. We pay quite a lot for the privilege of hunting. A wounded animal which is not recovered has to be paid for in full. Some farmers insist on charging money for a missed shot too (to discourage the tendency of some to blaze away at anything that moves - pick ones shot carefully - loose shots in bushveld may wound unseen animals and spook the hell out of most of the others).

Whilst most annual hunters I have encountered are good, ethical walk and stalk hunters, we too have our share of those who wound and abandon animals to slow deaths, even try to bribe guides into not declaring wounded animals or missed shots. It is sad when one persists in shooting at a living, feeling creature rather than accept it is time to hang up your gun. There are many other ways to appreciate the wild other than by continuing to shoot at deer one can't see properly.
 
You called him a president which indicates an elected position and implies a committees.

Elect him out of office, have the committee draft a fair hunting policy that all members must agree to and follow.

Screw politeness, this guy's a menace
 
Ithink some one who is close to him should talk to him, you know we all will be old one day if we live that long, csa
 
Do you have club bylaws or a mission statement? If his family won't intervene, perhaps reminding him of what he should be standing for would get the message across. Or you could simply collectively refuse to help him with tracking and anything else any further, shut him out until he gets the message. It's harsh, but his behavior is harsher.

Up where I hunt there are a lot of hunters, opening weekend is pretty much a shot every minute or two if you're listening closely, and it's not uncommon to hear a followup shot, sometimes two. But I just shake my head when I hear 5, 10 or more shots in a row though, which does happen at least a few times a day. What are you shooting with, and what are you shooting at? Unless you're harvesting a small herd, there is NO excuse for blasting away like that. I can't help but picture some degenerate who can't hit a paper plate at a football field's length with a rusted and pitted FAL emptying a mag at a few deer running across the field a couple hundred yards out. I would really chew someone out if I was close enough to pinpoint where they were at. Luckily most of the guys who have property adjacent to the family's are really solid, respectable hunters, but there sure are some clowns out there.
 
"It's not a matter of being elderly, it's a matter of being stupid.

I would bet, that testing would reveal that better than half of the deer hunters that come out on opening day of gun season:

1. Only shoot their deer rifle once a year.
2. Could not hit the vital area of a deer off hand over 50% of the time at 100 yards.
3. Would not have it enter their minds to use the prone position for long shots.
4. Don't know how to accurately estimate range.
5. Don't know how much their projectile of choice drops at 200 and 300 yards"


That's the main point. Its a slippery slope to try and get this oldtimer to hang up his guns, because he is probably less dangerous than a lot of young virile hunters out there.

Honestly my opinion is the urge to fix something could be better directed lobbying the truly dangerous old farts when it comes to hunting- the government and the antis.

Karl.
 
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