Bad new gun or bad ammo? 642 issues.

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bdjansen

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I just got back from the range with a brand new 642. I shot 50 rounds of Magtech 158 grain, 35-40 of another cheap brand (I can't remember what one) 158 grain, and 3 rounds of Speer Gold Dot.

I had 2 rounds fail to fire. Both bad shots were the Magtech brand. The first round that didn't go has a very wimpy dent on the primer. I ran it though again and it still didn't go. Still a very wimpy dent. Tried a few more times. Still no luck.

The second round that didn't fire had a wimpy dent in the primer too. But when I tried to shoot it a second time it went. The dent in the primer from the second time was a little deeper.

So should I send the gun to Smith and Wesson? I am very worried about weak primer strikes because the last Airweight I bought had a weak primer strike problem and had to be repaired.

Or is this an ammo issue? I have never had any problems with Magtech ammo other then that other J-Frame (that gun had problems with all ammo though).

That first round makes it sound like an ammo issue but the second one sounds like a gun issue.

What do you guys think?
 
May be a combination of both, I have not personnally experienced this problem but know other who have and they have attributed it tp Smith using a shorter firing pin to ensure the guns comply with CA requirements for drops test, one guy at our club bought a aftermarket firing pin designed to cure the problem from Cylinder & Slide (I think), others have resolved the problem by sending the gun back to S&W.
 
I would spritz some aerosol RemOil (Wally World carries it.) in the openings of your empty (Check it again!) 642 in the few openings it has - the pawl channel, the cylinder stop, etc. Spritz the cylinders axle - and where it rotates from the frame. Check that empty cylinder again - be sure its empty and the ammo is locked away elsewhere. Sit down in front of something mindless on the tube and, check it again to be certain it's empty (You don't want to do an Elvis impression...) and dry-fire away - 1,000+ times, changing hands often - even taking a break or two - even an extra day! Re-spritz those openings, wrap the revolver with paper towels to absorb the cleaner & any residue and shake it violently to get as much residue out. Repeat until the residue is clean. Dry the revolver - and put it back 'in service'.

This will remove most manufacturing crud - and mate the rubbing surfaces - essentially a simple 'trigger job' - with the added advantage of building up your trigger finger! Then - try your ammo again - but remember - you need to shoot something as close, ballistically, as possible to what you will carry. I carry the old 'FBI' loads, specifically the Remington R38S12. The Georgia Arms 158gr LSWC(HP) in +P is so close - and so much cheaper - I practice with that. If you continue to have lite fp strikes, call S&W's 800# (800-331-0852) for a return tag. It'll go back to them - and be returned to your door - at their cost - and quite quickly.

Stainz

PS The fp just puts a small dent in the primer. If it's enough to cause ignition, as the bullet exits the case, the case is shoved back agaist the recoil shield - causing the fp, which can't retract quickly enough, to further dent the primer.
 
May be a combination of both, I have not personnally experienced this problem but know other who have and they have attributed it tp Smith using a shorter firing pin to ensure the guns comply with CA requirements for drops test, one guy at our club bought a aftermarket firing pin designed to cure the problem from Cylinder & Slide (I think), others have resolved the problem by sending the gun back to S&W.
Click to expand...

Hmm. That's how they fixed my first one. Replaced the firing pin.

I would spritz some aerosol RemOil (Wally World carries it.) in the openings of your empty (Check it again!) 642 in the few openings it has - the pawl channel, the cylinder stop, etc. Spritz the cylinders axle - and where it rotates from the frame. Check that empty cylinder again - be sure its empty and the ammo is locked away elsewhere. Sit down in front of something mindless on the tube and, check it again to be certain it's empty (You don't want to do an Elvis impression...) and dry-fire away - 1,000+ times, changing hands often - even taking a break or two - even an extra day! Re-spritz those openings, wrap the revolver with paper towels to absorb the cleaner & any residue and shake it violently to get as much residue out. Repeat until the residue is clean. Dry the revolver - and put it back 'in service'.
Click to expand...

I'll see if I can find that stuff. No Wall Marts around here. Maybe I can find something similar. Would doing all this make the firing pin function better?

PS The fp just puts a small dent in the primer. If it's enough to cause ignition, as the bullet exits the case, the case is shoved back agaist the recoil shield - causing the fp, which can't retract quickly enough, to further dent the primer.
Click to expand...

So is ignition of the primer caused by the dent or by the primer being moved forward as a whole?
 
I have had Magtech fail to fire. I was told they have more hardened snap-caps. It turn out to be the gun and ammo, because of light strikes which I fixed later on, on my S&W revolver.
 
I have the same problem with my S&W 442 and it's the firing pin. The pin is too small. I compaired it to another gun and there is a big difference. Called S&W and they were suppose to send me a new firing pin and spring. I just got two springs in the mail. I need to get back to them, they may be back ordered or something. Comforting isn't it, poor lock design, poor firing pins, mim parts, miss fires, gives you that warm fuzzy feeling all over when you carry them. That's why I carry my older Colts, Agent and Cobra and Detective Special. My Colts go bang every time I fire them, and they hit where I want them to. Six shots, no mim parts, no light firing pin hits, they lock up super tight and built and hand fitted with high quality parts they way they should be built. The older (pre Lawyer, Mim, & lock) S&W's were excellent guns. Think about it, which one do you want to trust your life to?
 
+1 to cocojo. Dump it, and buy a nice Colt Cobra. I did. The firing pins are too short, and S&W has done nothing about it. Good luck! TJ
 
I had a Rossi M971 that had light strike problems with CCI primers. . I used CCI 550 magnum primers at the time on magnum loads. I just switched to Winchester standard small pistol primers and have had no problems since. Might be the Magtech ammo, but I think I'd talk to Smith and Wesson about it. The gun should cap any primer.
 
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I haven't had light strikes w/ any ammo w/ my 642..but I have had other issues that required my sending the gun back to smith.Call them and they will send you a shipping label,so you don't have to pay.I got my gun back in 4 days the 1st time and 8 the next.the second trip was something I did to screw it up.the first time the timing was screwed up and they replced the hand and trigger stop...both times no charge for part, labor or shipping.
 
Check the ammo for high primers. What you describe is common when the first strike seats the primer and the second strike ingites the now full seated primer.

I am not discounting the short pin idea, but high primers even in factory ammo is more common.

If pins are out of stock, e mail me (Not PM) I have spares and can spare one pin to you.
 
No ftf problems but my new 637 had to go back to Smith due to a very rough thumb slide action when opening the cylinder. In fact on one or two occasions, the cylinder wouldn't open on the first try. They of course fixed it and immediately returned it but you kinda' hate to have a problem right out of the box - especially with a SW.

But, it didn't sour me on SW - Still my favorite revolvers.
 
For the amount of money you paid for that gun I'd send it back to S&W. Of course, you have to give up your new gun for a while to do this :/
 
I called S&W. I'll send it back to them. That's why I bought a Smith. Because they will make it right in the end.

It does sound like they have a bit of a problem with firing pins coming of the production line.

If pins are out of stock, e mail me (Not PM) I have spares and can spare one pin to you.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the offer Round Gun. I'd better let them do it though. I don't have the experience to take my revolver apart.
 
First, that "wimpy" dent is perfectly normal when a primer fails to fire.

What you are used to seeing is a fired primer whose metal has flowed back around the firing pin, giving it a deep appearance. If the fired primers look like that ("normal"), then there is nothing wrong with the gun or the firing pin.

But when the primer doesn't fire, there is no pressure inside to press the primer metal back and around the firing pin and the dent looks shallow and "wimpy".

The problem was quite simple - bum primers, probably just dead, but perhaps too hard. One went on the second try, the other didn't.

Jim
 
I had a S&W 442 that did the same thing, would not fire on live rounds. The first weekend I got it, fired a few cylinders through, then it started rotating through on all five live rounds with no firing. Tried those same rounds the next day and they worked. Called S&W and they said it was the Remington ammo, lubed it up and it has worked well ever since then. S&W did send me a label to send it in if I wanted to.
 
bdjansen, you need to read some more, what cause your problem is the lock on your s&w. that evil lock is the cause for all the problems now days lol sorry just read a lot of posting on the lock couldn't help my self, oh by the way our cat just had kittens darn lock.

be safe
 
TFIC:

The IL failures - and their much lower probability of failure than that of commercial ammo ftfs - got me to thinking. Maybe I should use the money saved from not buying ammo and cleaning supplies on a laser grip. Then, I could put a red dot on a bg and holler 'BANG!'. No more worries re the occasional bad ammo - or the IL! Of course, after the unfortunate first, and probably only,incident, the bg would sue your survivors for your intimidating him in his chosen occupation.

I never thought of that 'global warming' connection!

Seriously now, to the OP.... what happened? Any more ftfs with other ammo - or other batches of the originally suspected 'bad' ammo?

Stainz
 
Seriously now, to the OP.... what happened? Any more ftfs with other ammo - or other batches of the originally suspected 'bad' ammo?
Click to expand...

I just got my next day mailer from S&W. I'll send it monday. I didn't take it to the range to shoot anymore. The reason is ammo is very expensive and it sounds like this firing pin issue is pretty common. S&W didn't even blink when I told them about it on the phone. Hopefully they will make it right like they did for my 637.
 
I didn't take it to the range to shoot anymore. The reason is ammo is very expensive and it sounds like this firing pin issue is pretty common.
Click to expand...
.38 Special is one of the best cartridges to reload for a few reasons.
1) Brass is cheap and plentiful
2) Brass lasts a long time with reasonable loads
3) Small powder charges
4) Very inexpensive lead bullets are available
5) You can use pretty much any small pistol primer to suit firing pin/hammer strength needs. (I.e., you don't need hard primers like a military semi-auto).
6) No need to lube cases
7) You are able to make anything from powder-puff loads to hot +P loads without paying for specialty ammo.
 
I had similar issues with my NIB 442. The first outing I shot about 300 rounds (I was a little sore after) without a hitch. I don't remember the brand, possible HSM or Fiocci (spl?). I then put about 10 rounds of PMC Starfire (Carry load) and didn't have any issues. I did have 6/10 FTF's with Double Tap +P 135 grains. Upon inspection it appeared the Double Tap's had the primers seated too deep, so I wrote it off as a ammo issue.

When it came time to qualify with the gun for off-duty LEO carry, I used Wally World WWD 130 gr and had 6/10 FTF's. By this time I was a little disheartened.

I compared the lenght of the firing pin (by looking sideways at the dry fired pin through the cylinder/frame gap) and its significantly shorter than that of my Ruger SP101 and SW mod 10.

I checked the fired case that came with the pistol (Federal) and compared it to the WWB, Double Tap and PMC's. The primer on the factory fired case was noticeably thicker than the others and had a nice, deep primer dent. All the other ammo I had on hand will rattle back and forth inside the chambers if you shake the gun forward and back. The factory fired Federal case fits tight in that there is no room for it to move back and forth due the thickness of the case rim.

I called SW and told them what was happening. I described the ammo I had used and told them that while I would be happy to just use Federal exclusively if that was what worked, my PD requires us to use Winchester for duty BUG carry.

The rep, while unable to provide an explanation, told me he would send be a prepaid postage and to mail it in. He also told me that LEO guns are top priority, so hopefully it comes back soon. I mailed it about a week ago, so I am anxiously anticipating its return.

Back to the Double Tap ammo with the seemingly deep primers. I fired 2/3's the box with a Ruger SP101 with a light weight hammer spring. Bang everytime. I also had a SW mod 10 that I had installed a lighter hammer spring and it FTF'd on about 1/7 rounds I ran, regardless of make.

This was the first time testing both pistols with the lighter springs and the Ruger's fantastic in this set up. The SW I took home and put the factory spring back in. I had installed a lighter trigger return spring and I was actually happier with the latter spring set up in regards to trigger pull, so it will stay this way.

The 442 was the first NIB SW I have bought, and while I have always heard great things about SW's service, experiencing it first hand was great. I will be buying more SW's in the future, with a MP9 being first on the list.
 
Failure to fire in S&W 642

I wanted to like this gun!

The phrase "designed to be carried frequently and shot infrequently" may apply to S&W 642......I have had 2 in the last 3 years, chalked the first new 642 up as a mystery......had the gun for 2 days, shot 50 rounds of factory Remington non +P at the range, it exhibited weak primer hits(primers very slightly dented) at rate of 20%. Changed to Winchester Winclean and the same thing occured over the first 10 rounds or so and then wouldn't fire.....firing pin would not protrude through to "see daylight".

Sent it back to S&W and they fixed it, when it was returned the gun locked up after first cylinder of Magtech 130 gr. non +P ammo. Had enough of that one, sent it back to S&W.....got it back, worked fine for a week but I just lost confidence in the gun and sold it.

Almost 3 years later decided to try it again, I really love the concept of the 642.....bought it new, after 50 rounds of Remington non +P the primers were barely dented, sent THAT one back and it was repaired.....unbeliveably when using Federal non+P Hydra-Shoks it went back to barely striking the primer after less that a box!

Of all the revolvers and semi-autos I own or have owned, this model is the most mysterious to me......it's reputation is generally great.

My premise is that any gun worthy of trust,especially one designed for carry, should be capable of handling a hundred or so standard pressure rounds per week for practice............. my new Ruger SP101 arrives next week!!!!
 
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^^^^

That is why you test a carry gun before you carry it.

I have had my 642 for over 4 years. I have fired hundreds of rounds through it every year. I do not recall ever having any trouble with its functioning. Finish peeling? Check. Recoil uncomfortable with +P loads? Yeah. Fires every time I pull the trigger? Got that down. Hits what I shoot at? That too.

I carry it every day.
 
The vast majority of 642 owners I know echo your confidence in it and it's why I was so darn frustrated with the exprience.
 
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