Ball powders and accuracy

[Bayourambler]

Just wondering , why do many people say ball powders are not good for accuracy? I’ve been loading win 748 for my sons 308 and have had very nice accuracy. I developed the rounds late this summer in 90 degree heat and had some concern after reading that ball powders are temp sensitive. It’s finally cooling off here in Louisiana and I shot it this morning ,(45 degrees), and it shot fine. Can I expect much change if we shoot it in the 20’s or 30’s? By the way , for ball powders not being know for accuracy , it’s listed as most accurate powder tested in 3 manuals I looked in, for 125 grain bullets.

 

[Galil5.56]

Some of my most accurate rife ammo, is made with ball propellants. I do find a magnum primer mandatory to keep fliers away, and accuracy at max.

 

[Tony k]

I thought it was only about temperature sensitivity. Me? I wouldn't worry about a 45 degree swing for hunting, unless I need longer range consistency.

 

[hdwhit]

Bayourambler wrote:
...why do many people say ball powders are not good for accuracy?

Who says that?

I settled on a particular load for 223 Remington using IMR-4198 in the early 1980's. During the "component drought" that followed, I couldn't get IMR-4198 and had to develop a "ballistically identical" load using Winchester 748. It takes a larger charge of 748 to get the same performance and point of impact at 100 yards as I was getting with IMR-4198, but as related you your question, surely that's the point. I'm using a ball powder and I'm getting the same performance and point of impact - in other words, no discernible difference.

 

[dirtman]

With 748 i always loaded with mag primer; that had more to do with the fact that i would hunt in temps as low as -40 without accountanting for the wind chill. I Still will use 748 as it was very accurrate but came into alot of varget and been using it.

 

[Dwb1957]

One of My most accurate loads in my 308 is with w-748 with a 125 gr Sierra sp ,it likes the max load of 51.5 grs and I have a reduced load using another ball powder a-2230 with the same bullet that shoots great. I got a custom 223 that shoots five-five round groups in the mid twos using a ball powder I think that's a bad rumor lol.

 

[LiveLife]

why do many people say ball powders are not good for accuracy?

Well, don't tell that to my .223 ARs as H335 is my favored powder, a ball powder.

 

[Axis II]

I've been in that boat twice. h335 didn't shoot well but benchmark and h322 shoot way better. A buddy wanted to use h380 for 22-250 and couldn't get tighter then a 2'' group at 100yards so switched to varget and now touches holes.

 

[joneb]

I use BL-C 2 for .308 win. with Nosler 165 gr BT and Accubond with excellent accuracy,

 

[Walkalong]

ust wondering , why do many people say ball powders are not good for accuracy?

Because at long distance stick powders rule when it comes to world class accuracy. Even in 100 & 200 yard Benchrest you don't s much ball powder used.

TAC was tried in Benchrest for a while, and I shot some good groups with it, although it was sensitive to being loaded on humid days.

Don Geraci told he he shot some of his smallest groups with TAC, but would also get an unexplained errant shot once in a while. He quit using it, and so did I Went back to N-133 for 6 PPC. H-322 and 2015 won some matches, but for the most part, once the 6 PPC took over Benchrest, N-133 was by far the favorite powder.

So yes, ball powders can be accurate, even very accurate, but at the highest level of competition, stick powders rule.

 

[Swampman]

As a general rule, stick powders are more accurate.

As a general rule, general rules have a lot of exceptions.

With sporter grade rifles fired under normal conditions, there probably isn't going to be much difference.

For most of my life I've been a firm believer in IMR type extruded powders for all of my HP rifle accuracy loads. The only calibers that I regularly used ball powder in were .30 Carbine and 5.56x45.

A few years back I was fire forming cases for my .257 Roberts Ackley Improved and decided to use TAC since I had a bunch and it meters so well.

I loaded up fifty Winchester +P cases with a fairly light load of TAC under some 120 grain Hornady flat base HP's that I'd picked up cheap a few years earlier and never used.

My first 5 shot group went into slightly over three tenths of an inch!

None of the 10 groups fired that day were much over a half inch. The best group I've ever shot with that rifle was just under two tenths of an inch, and that was fired with 100 grain MatchKings, carefully weighed charges of IMR 4350 and fully match prepped cases.

The TAC loads were fired in new, unprepped, unformed brass. I didnt even neck size, and it probably took me less than three minutes to charge all 50 cases.

I still prefer single base stick powders, especially for my hunting loads, but I've had excellent results with TAC in .308 Winchester shooting out to 600 yards.

I haven't found it to be problematic regarding temperature sensitivity either, but to be fair I may not be the best source of info on that subject. I shoot a good bit in 100+ degree weather, but very little when it's much below freezing.

 

[Bayourambler]

Heck , it only gets in the 20's down here a few days a year so I'm not even gonna worry with it. It will just be extra careful when reloading and watch the humidity. (Which we have plenty of down here!)

 

[Slamfire]

Just wondering , why do many people say ball powders are not good for accuracy? I’ve been loading win 748 for my sons 308 and have had very nice accuracy. I developed the rounds late this summer in 90 degree heat and had some concern after reading that ball powders are temp sensitive. It’s finally cooling off here in Louisiana and I shot it this morning ,(45 degrees), and it shot fine. Can I expect much change if we shoot it in the 20’s or 30’s? By the way , for ball powders not being know for accuracy , it’s listed as most accurate powder tested in 3 manuals I looked in, for 125 grain bullets.

Accuracy is relative to the target and the need. Ball powders will shoot MOA, I have shot some very small groups with ball powders, but in target shooting, I preferred stick powders. I used primarily AA2520 (a ball powder) and the stuff seemed peaky, that is blew primers without any warning signs of pressure. Loads I developed in 70 to 80 degree weather blew primers in 90 degree weather. This is subjective, I did not have pressure measuring devices, I shot my ammunition over a chronograph and evaluated primer condition and velocity. Both very uncertain for determining pressure. I did have enough primers pierce or blow to mistrust ball powders. Ball powders did leave more residue in the gas system and in the action. Ball powders were quite messy. AA2520 also caused "settling" problems. I shot the stuff out to 300 yards and then switched over to a favorite stick powder at 600 yards and clearly saw, a number of times, where the first couple of shots with stick powders were erratic. This never happened shooting one brand of stick powder to 300 yards and then switching to a different one at 600 yards.

The better metering of ball powders creates a false intuitive deduction. Most reloaders assume that better metering means better accuracy and smaller velocity deviations. These intuitive ideas are false. Better metering does not necessarily mean better accuracy or tighter velocity spreads, you have to test the load to determine it's characteristics. I have tested enough stick and ball powder loads to conclude that better metering means better metering and not necessarily anything else.

Another thing, all the ball powders I have read about are double based powders. The shelf life of double based powders is less than half the average shelf life of single based powders. This is because the nitrogylcerine in double based powders deteriorate nitrocellulose.

The bottom line is, does your rifle shoot well with your chosen load? If it does, then what someone else thinks or does is irrelevant.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I agree with those who posted ball powders can be very accurate but for accuracy games stick powders are number 1.

I use H335 decor most of my .223 loading but for my bolt action .223 out past 200 yards Varget is my powder choice.

 

[spitballer]

FWIW I've always suspected that it has to do with filling of the case. My most accurate round happens to be stick but it also happens to fill the case better.