I use a .308 for whitetail and load 180 Grain SST's. 180 works best out of my gun but I'm not happy with the penetration of the SST. Thinking about trying Barnes TTSX and heard you can drop down some weight using monolithic bullets. I know 180 for whitetail is overkill, but they shoot the best out of my gun. The farthest I can shoot where I hunt is 300 yards and it can get brushy here in Wisconsin at shorter shots which is why I like the heavier bullets. I can only find 180 TTSX right now so I can't compare. Since the farthest is only 300 yds. and I'll be punching brush from time to time, is the 180 a good pick, or should I drop down to the 168? I know, I know, whatever shoots best. Just wondering if it's overkill and since I have no experience with monolithic bullets, I'm looking for some insight, maybe some pro's and con's. Been hunting deer for 47 years, but only started using a rifle recently.
Barnes TTSX 168 or 180
- Thread starter hdtramp
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AJC1
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Honestly you need to step down... when I was playing around. The 130 or 150 was a good fit. A mono is a speed demon and not a brush buster.
troy fairweather
Member
Go light, you really need some velocity for the barnes to work good. So 150 or lighter.
kalielkslayer
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The entirely brass bulllets are longer than lead core bullets.
And they need velocity to expand.
In your caliber I would look at 150 grains, 165 max.
And they need velocity to expand.
In your caliber I would look at 150 grains, 165 max.
Sure, the Barnes will work on deer. And so will bullets at a fraction of the price.
To shoot deer at 300 yards — you, your rifle and ammo should be capable of 3” groups at 100 yards.
To shoot deer at 600 yards — you, your rifle and ammo should be capable of 1.5” groups at 100 yards.
Think you are up to it?
To shoot deer at 300 yards — you, your rifle and ammo should be capable of 3” groups at 100 yards.
To shoot deer at 600 yards — you, your rifle and ammo should be capable of 1.5” groups at 100 yards.
Think you are up to it?
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It's about speed. From a 308 I wouldn't go heavier than 150, and 130's will do fine for deer size game. In 30-06 150 or 165. The 180's need magnum speed to expand.
Bullets range from very soft, to very hard. The SST's you've been using are on the extreme soft end of the scale, all of the solid copper bullets are on the extreme hard end of the scale. Softer bullets expand at slower speeds, which are great for long range hunting where they have slowed down before impacting. At closer ranges they may over expand.
You can make them work at closer ranges by shooting heavier for caliber bullets which slows them down and provides more mass. The 180 gr SST's from a 308 should be slow enough and heavy enough to be just fine. 150 gr SST's from a 308 might over expand at ranges under 100 yards and not penetrate enough.
Hard bullets provide plenty of penetration, but need to impact faster in order to expand. You don't need a bullet that is heavy. A 130 gr solid copper bullet will just about match a 180 gr conventional bullet for penetration. But at longer ranges they are often too slow to expand reliably.
If you're happy with the 180 gr SST's accuracy I'd stay with it. Deer ain't big and don't need a lot of penetration. With animals that small you're overthinking this. When you get to bigger game like elk, moose or the big bear then you need to start thinking about a tougher bullet.
Bullets range from very soft, to very hard. The SST's you've been using are on the extreme soft end of the scale, all of the solid copper bullets are on the extreme hard end of the scale. Softer bullets expand at slower speeds, which are great for long range hunting where they have slowed down before impacting. At closer ranges they may over expand.
You can make them work at closer ranges by shooting heavier for caliber bullets which slows them down and provides more mass. The 180 gr SST's from a 308 should be slow enough and heavy enough to be just fine. 150 gr SST's from a 308 might over expand at ranges under 100 yards and not penetrate enough.
Hard bullets provide plenty of penetration, but need to impact faster in order to expand. You don't need a bullet that is heavy. A 130 gr solid copper bullet will just about match a 180 gr conventional bullet for penetration. But at longer ranges they are often too slow to expand reliably.
If you're happy with the 180 gr SST's accuracy I'd stay with it. Deer ain't big and don't need a lot of penetration. With animals that small you're overthinking this. When you get to bigger game like elk, moose or the big bear then you need to start thinking about a tougher bullet.
If you, your rifle or ammo can't shoot under 1/2" group bench rested at 100 yards it's time for more practice, work on rifle or better ammo. I don't stop until I have 5 holes touching at 100 yards.
I posted what should be expected for hunting accuracy. A chance to reflect on where to spend limited time and money in the pursuit of game. Sure, me and my hunting rifles are more accurate than that, but don’t really need to be.
mcb
Member
A rifle capable of MOA is more that sufficient for the OP that only hunts out to 300 yards you could probably get away with 1.5 MOA in most cases assuming you can actually shoot 1.5 MOA at 300 yards in real world hunting situations.
My hunting rifles for the past 4-5 years have been a 1.5 MOA gun and a 2-MOA guns measure @ 100 yards and 5-shot groups. I have yet to loose a critter, deer or otherwise with either rifle.
That said OP I would go lighter using Barnes bullets, as many others have also indicated. In a 308 I would probably drop to 150 grain maybe lighter. All copper bullets are tough and you can go lighter to maintain higher velocity while still getting good penetration. I use the Barnes TSX in my 450 bushmaster and its an very good bullet but a very expensive bullet.
My rifle shoots under 1" groups with the 180 grain bullets and 1.5 to 2 inch groups or more with 150 grains at 100 yards. I realize that even 2 inch is good enough for hunting, but I strive for better than 2". As far as Muddydogs comment, I realize rifles don't break brush as well as my 12 gauge, but physics dictates a heavier bullet would be better than a lighter one. Thanks for everyone's feedback, pretty much figured I was overkilling it, but the 180's shot better. I plan on using the rifle when sitting on open fields, but have to walk through some brush to get to some of the stands.
AJC1
Member
So you have done a direct comparison of the monos or your using cup and core data to compare how monos will act. Longer bearing surface can have a positive impact on some guns which monos have in a lower weight bullet. Just curious really.
When a bullet strikes an object say a twig it doesn't matter if it weights 55 grains or 200 grains the strike is going to effect the bullets trajectory in unpredictable ways. Your only hope is the twig is close enough to the target, like a foot or two, that the bullet doesn't have a chance to get to far off target.
OP since this is a reloading forum I assume your reloading the 150 grain bullets? If you are reloading then you need to keep working on the load and different bullet brands to find one that shoots well. I have never seen a rifle that wouldn't shoot any grain bullet well, some take more time and money to figure out what works and some perform well with anything stuffed down the barrel.
Hunting accuracy is just an accuse for a poor load, rifle or shooter. I don't want to hunt with a rifle that will only shoot 1.5" to 2" groups off a bench at 100 yards. There are enough factors that effect accuracy while hunting there is no need to start out with a rifle that is already 2" off. When I am taking a 200 yard off hand shot at a deer or an elk I know my rifle will put the bullet right were it needs to be if I can get the trigger timed right and I don't want to worry about the rifle shooting off one way or another.
I load Barnes 168 grain TTSX for a bubby in 30-06 and I shoot 160 Accubond out of my 7mm RM. For multiple elk kills between the both of us I'll stick with my Accubonds for better penetration and wound channel. Same for the 25-06, I think my Accubonds perform better then the Barnes in both deer and antelope.
OP since this is a reloading forum I assume your reloading the 150 grain bullets? If you are reloading then you need to keep working on the load and different bullet brands to find one that shoots well. I have never seen a rifle that wouldn't shoot any grain bullet well, some take more time and money to figure out what works and some perform well with anything stuffed down the barrel.
Hunting accuracy is just an accuse for a poor load, rifle or shooter. I don't want to hunt with a rifle that will only shoot 1.5" to 2" groups off a bench at 100 yards. There are enough factors that effect accuracy while hunting there is no need to start out with a rifle that is already 2" off. When I am taking a 200 yard off hand shot at a deer or an elk I know my rifle will put the bullet right were it needs to be if I can get the trigger timed right and I don't want to worry about the rifle shooting off one way or another.
I load Barnes 168 grain TTSX for a bubby in 30-06 and I shoot 160 Accubond out of my 7mm RM. For multiple elk kills between the both of us I'll stick with my Accubonds for better penetration and wound channel. Same for the 25-06, I think my Accubonds perform better then the Barnes in both deer and antelope.
AJC1
Member
I may be wrong, often I am I think people are forced to use monos because of state or area rules.
JimKirk
Member
130 TTSX for .308 Winchester ...TAC and W748 works well with those bullets ....
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