Benelli M2 and M4 question

[ravencon]

It is my understanding that both the Benelli M2 and M4 utilize an inertia system but that they are not the same system. Does anyone have experience with both models? If so tell me about their handling characteristics.

Any other comments about these shotties based on actual experience would be most welcome. Thanks.

 

[Zak Smith]

The M4 is gas operated.

Shot side by side with my M1S90, the M4 was heavier and had pretty much the saeme recoil. That was my impression anyway.

 

[mete]

The website states clearly - the M4 has a gas operated system -ARGO. This is also used in their R-1 rifle.

 

[Gixerman1000]

The M2 and M4 are both great shotguns and work extremely well at what they are designed to do.

All Benelli semi auto shotguns except the M4 are Inertia Driven, the Inertia Driven system is clean and reliable when used under the conditions and with the loads it was designed for.
Benelli recommends a load of 1-1/8oz at 3 dram eq or more so light target or tactical loads may or may not function reliably especially if there is added weight to the shotgun.
The Inertia system is sensitive to the added weight from accessories mounted to the shotgun such as lights, shell carriers and optic’s (night vision, red dots etc), the system can also be sensitive to how firm or lose the shotgun is held when being fired, like in shooting off shoulder or with your shoulder/back to a wall.

The M4 uses the ARGO (auto-regulating gas-operated) system, the ARGO system will pretty much cycle everything other than super light loads like non-lethal and it will do so no matter how much extra weight is on the shotgun or how firmly it’s held (with in reason).

The ARGO system is pretty simple and very clean running for a gas operated shotgun, the system consists of two cylinders, two stainless steel pistons and two stainless steel cylinder plugs that each contain a spring loaded pressure regulating bleed off valve.

A single hole in each cylinder that leads into the barrel just in front of the chamber channels the gas to power the pistons, the pistons only move about ¼” and push the bolt carrier back to unlock and cycle the action, the cylinder plugs help to keep an optimal pressure level in the cylinders by staying closed with low powered shells or opening up with hi powered shells to release excess gas pressure.









The M4 being designed to serve as the US military’s Joint Service Combat Shotgun (JSCS) (designated the M1014) is built for extremely rugged use in combat conditions and it is noticeably heaver than the M1 or M2 but the extra weight helps keep the felt recoil low and it’s very controllable.

I have had mine for about 8 months and couldn’t be happier with it, it has been 100% reliable with everything from my light target reloads (#8 shot) to max DRAM 3” magnum buckshot loads and can effortlessly cycle through 9 shells faster than I can pull the trigger.

 

[MagiKBullet]

Since Gixxer posted his awesome m4 pics I thought I'd add some of my new M2.
It has a dmw mag tube, bolt handle, and barrel clamp on it. My trp always sneaks into pictures too





Hope you enjoy them!

-Scott

 

[Gendaito]

aw crap, now I have to scrounge up $1000+ to buy a benelli. It's all your fault, you two!

Local fun show prices, I think the M4 was $1200 and the M2 was $900. Gotta go sell some plasma or something...

 

[Nightcrawler]

to max DRAM 3” magnum buckshot loads and can effortlessly cycle through 9 shells faster than I can pull the trigger.

I thought the M4's capacity was 6+1? How many does the tube hold, and what's the barrel length?

 

[WeedWhacker]

According to what I saw, and ImpactGuns' website, the Benelli M4 holds 4+1 shells.

I know that ravencon was specifically asking about the Benelli M2 and M4s, but I was also looking for a semi-auto shotgun and just felt that the ~$1400 price couldn't be justified with the low-ish capacity tube magazine.

So, I bought a Saiga-12 and some of AGP Arms' 10-round magazines. I load 9 in the magazine and put one in the chamber for best results, and have zero complaints. Depending on your criteria, you also may want to consider a Saiga. Fuzzy Bunny Movie Guns sells the Saiga IZ-109 for about $405.

 

[MagiKBullet]

Gendaito,
if you hurry theres someone on ar15.com who's selling an m2 with a sling and extension for 800!!! If you're interested look there. (I missed this by about a day and a half lol...

Nightcrawler, Benelli seems to have stopped making extended m4 tubes, bowever there are some devotees that can be found on the benelli forums that have custom designed extension tubes and sell them.

Weedwhacker, yes the saiga is a hell of a gun. tromix is prbably gonna see some of my business for a x39 soon, THEN a 12 somewhere down the line

-Scott

 

[Nightcrawler]

Even with the "full length" tube instead of the crimped one, the Benelli M4 only does 6+1, as I understand. There was an M1S90, and still is an M3, in FBMG that I was playing around with.

Fit and finish were top notch, surprisingly light. But length inefficient, I think. The Benelli M3, especially. For the same (or maybe even a bit less) overall length, a Mossberg 590A1 will give you two (I think) more rounds in the tube with a longer barrel to boot. It just feels overly long for a weapon in that role, and the reach to the pump is far for my 6'2" carcass.

Personally, I wonder why Remington can only fit six shells in a tube underneath an 18" barrel but Winchester/FN can fit seven. On the other hand, Mossberg can fit eight underneath a 20" barrel (590A1) but the others need 22" for that. Heck, the Mossberg 500A with a 20" barrel only holds 7+1, but the 590 with a 20" barrel holds another shell!

Ah well, that's a topic for another thread. I like my guns short and handy, under one meter long if at all possible. My 16" FAL carbine and 18" 870 both come to about 38" overall.

 

[MagiKBullet]

I'll have to defer to someone who has an m4 as to their capacity. I know my m2 has an 18.5" barrel and my added tube holds 7+1 as compared to the factory tube which held 5+1.

-Scott

 

[Gixerman1000]

The M4 has an 18.5" barrel (marked 18.3) and will hold up to 9 = 2-3/4” shells or 8 = 3” shells.

Like other Benelli shotguns the M4 doesn’t come with a full length mag tube but since the barrel is braced at the muzzle the M4 uses a tube spacer to add length, the spacer can be unscrewed and replaced with a 2 shot extension or you can get a custom full length tube.



The listed capacity of 4 in the tube is without the full length tube and with using 3” shells, as it comes the tube will hold 5 = 2-3/4” shells, with the full length tube (or equivalent using an extension) the tube will hold 7 = 2-3/4” or 6 = 3” shells.

Other than a chambered shell adding 1 to the capacity, the M4 is capable holding an additional shell on the shell carrier often referred to as to “floating" a shell, this is explained in the US Marine Corps M1014 manual but not in the standard M4 manual.

Floating a shell on the carrier to get max capacity is done by fully loading the mag tube, then pulling and holding the bolt carrier back far enough to insert shells through the ejection port without resetting the shell carrier, with the bolt carrier held back insert 1 shell through the ejection port and push it down on the shell carrier, then insert another through the ejection port and into the chamber, when you release the bolt carrier it will go over the top of the shell on the shell carrier and close on the chambered shell.

The bolt carrier can be pulled back almost all the way before it will reset the shell carrier (making an audible click) giving more than enough room to easily load to max capacity, if you pull the bolt carrier back too far and reset the shell carrier you will have to close the bolt carrier and try again or the shell carrier will lift when the bolt carrier closes and try to feed the shell you are trying to float into an already loaded chamber.
Pulling the trigger normally releases a shell from the mag tube onto the shell carrier but with a shell already there it will not until the chambered and floated shell has been fired.

Older M1’s could float a shell as well but the last I heard the newer M1’s & latest M2’s could not with out a modification to the bolt carrier (I heard the modification was easy, like filing a tab off or something but I’m not sure).

So with 2-3/4” shells the M4 will hold 7 in the tube + 1 floating on the carrier + 1 in the chamber.

7 + 1 + 1 = 9

 

[ravencon]

Thanks to all, especially to Gixerman whose posting had exactly the information I was looking for.

As it happens I visited a large gun store today and they had an M2, M3 and an M4 on the racks so I got to compare them all side by side. The M4 is much heavier than the others. All seem exceptionally well made. The gun store employee knew absolutely nothing while pretending he knew everything.

There may well be an M4 in my future, despite the painful price tag.

 

[Hoser]

+1 and +1

Floating a round...

Take a close look at the underside of your carrier. If there are two notches, make the rear notch look opposite the forward notch like the pic below. Not even 30 seconds with a Dremel.

Or, fill it with JB weld (works, but for how long...) or have it TiG welded up.

Without the mod, it will not float a round.

Older Benellis did not have the notch at the rear of the carrier and float rounds just fine.

 

[Gixerman1000]

Glad to help.

I paid just under $1500 for my M4, I probably could have found one for a little less but availability of them was very hit and miss and at the time, my local shop hadn’t had one in over a year and I had heard that during that time most were going to federal law enforcement agency’s like the DEA and DHS as well several large SWAT teams.

Mine was also a new 11707 model that had all the latest changes and features I wanted so I felt it best not to pass it up, these changes and features are screw in choke tubes, a flange just behind the chamber for extra bracing of the barrel at the front of the receiver, a few changes at the very back of the barrel, a recoil tube under the stock that has milled out notches and is ready to accept the Benelli collapsible stock and most importantly they went back to only using the two port barrel.

The once optional 4 port barrels are usually marked “low recoil only” and can also be identified by looking into the chamber end of the barrel to see the ports just past the chamber inside the barrel (2 holes = good / 4 holes = bad), these 4 port barrels were meant for extremely light loads only but that wasn’t understood by most and Benelli didn’t make it very clear so when people used heavy loads they would over stress and break the gas pistons as well as deform the bolt carrier, 4 port barrels are no longer offered by Benelli and Benelli has been replacing them with 2 port barrels as they surface.

All the new M4’s I have seen since I bought mine have been the newer 11707’s like mine but I though I would save you the trouble by letting you know what to look for should you decide to buy an M4 and run into an older one without the features you may want or with a 4 port barrel.

 

[ravencon]

I paid just under $1500 for my M4

That is close to what I've seen them going for in western Massachusetts and around Hartford, CT. That I've seen 'em in a couple of gun stores in the last two weeks may indicate that they are becoming more available.

Thanks for the additional info about the barrel porting, etc.

Based on the info I've gotten from these posts and my in store examinations, the M4 will be my choice from the Benelli line up. I've looked at most of the semi-auto HD type shotguns and the Benelli is the pick of the litter. It is, for me, a natural pointer.

I just got the chance to take a look at the Scattergun Technologies model based on the Remington 11-87. It has some very fine bells and whistles but it just didn't feel right for me--and it was priced at $1,700

 

[Gixerman1000]

Hoser

Thanks for the info on the bolt carrier modification.

Nightcrawler

The M4 has a receiver that’s about 3/4" longer than a Mossberg 500/590 and the stock is about 3/4" longer, but it's still shorter over all than my 20" Mossberg 500 Persuader by about a 1/2" and can carry one more shell (or the same as the 20” 590A1).

BTW
I think the 20” 590A1 can carry one more shell than the 20” 500 Persuader because it has a regular end cap and the 500 has the fixed screw in the barrel and fixed block crimped in place at the end of the tube,,,,, but like you said, that's a topic for another thread.

MagiKBullet

I forgot to tell you congratulations on your new M2, it looks great as do the accessories you have on it.