Berdan Primers

[444]

Has anyone ever reloaded Berdan primed cases ? Over the years I have read about at least three different methods of decapping Berdan primed cases. First is the RCBS tool designed and built for that purpose. Second is using a sharp flat bladed tool to piece the primer and pry it out. The source where I read about this didn't get anymore specific. I envisioned something like a small screwdriver but I don't know. Appearently at one time these tools were readily available. Third would be depriming hydraulically. Again, I never read any of the details but I am assuming that the case is filled with water and a piston is pushed into the case mouth with the resulting pressure expelling the spent primer. I would really love to hear from anyone that has actually done any of this or has done something else that I am not aware of.
Then we come to the actual Berdan primers themselves. I have read that they are available; I believe they might have said that Old Western Scrounger might have them. Again, anyone know anything about this. Are there different sizes of Berdan primers ?

Why would I want to do this ? I know that pretty much any cartridge case known to man is available somewhere and at some cost in a boxer primed format. All you have to do is look hard enough, wait long enough, and pay the asking price. But, I would like to do it just because I want to. I don't care if it costs more than new ammo etc. I would just like to have another skill in my tool box. Specifically I would like to reload my surplus 7.5 Swiss cases. These are beautiful brass cases. I can't stand the idea of just throwing them away. 7.5 Swiss brass isnt' easy to find and it is expensive. I know that various group buys have been put together. I realize that Hornady is making factory ammo in this caliber. I realize that Graffs has a waiting list for 7.5 Hornady brass and that they have in the past come through with brass in this caliber. But I want to reload the Berdan primed cases I have.

HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Poodleshooter]

No, I haven't. See below.
OWS should have them. Last price I heard was around $15-18 per 250 of them. Not exactly economical. The RCBS tool looks like an odd bottle cap opener, and works in a similar fashion by hooking and ripping out the primer. There are several different sizes of Berdan's. The pocket diameters and depths are different than Boxer, so just drilling out the hole is not necessarily an option, though I have no doubt that someone here has done it.
Might be interesting to try, but I'm not very mechanically adventurous.

 

[444]

That is a fairly substantial price I agree. But a year ago, when I was paying $39.99/20 round box of Norma 7.5 Swiss ammo, that would have been a bargin. Swiss surplus ammo is still $39.99/60 round package. At that price it makes it all the harder to just throw the empties away.

Thanks for the comment.

 

[geekay]

Berdan primed cases.

Yep I load them all the time for my LE 303, So here is the good oil. Military brass has the primers crimped in or sealed with paint, I have never seen commercial berdan primed brass so I don't know about that. With milsurp the RCBS tool is fairly effective but be prepared to loose some with stubborn primers, Hydraulic decapping is the most effective for initial decapping and for that you need certain tools. I use a "DeBond" wich is made under licence here, a copy of a British tool. It's fiddly and messy and slow, about one a minute is the best I have done. Another hydraulic tool is a home-made one that might be more user friendly, ask this bloke; [email protected] and maybe he will send you pics and instructions; as he did for me but alas, my H/D died. Reloading berdan primed cases is FIDDLY and SLOWER but if your brass is expensive or your funds are limited as mine are it is justified. My Email addy is around here somewhere if you need it.

 

[444]

Bump

 

[YankeeClipper]

.284

Isn't it true that .284 brass will form quite easley to 7.5 Swiss ?

 

[444]

Yes, .284 brass can be resized to 7.5 Swiss by simply running it through a 7.5 Swiss sizing die. It isn't perfect 7.5 Swiss brass however because the rim is different. From what I understand, it works fine however.
I have taken steps towards trying this. I purchased a set of 7.5 Swiss Hornady dies. I got on a waiting list for 500 pieces of 7.5 Swiss brass with a Hornady headstamp. I purchased an RCBS berdan depriming tool. After ordering all this stuff from Graff and Sons, I called the Old Western Scrounger to get primers. Then we run into another problem. Appearently berdan primers arn't sold simply as large and small rifle etc. They wanted to know the dimensions of the primer pocket. Since I have no deprimed brass, I couldn't tell them. So, when the RCBS tool comes in, I will deprime the brass I have and measure it.
As I mentioned in my original post, I realize that you can buy brass, both 7.5 Swiss and .284 brass which you can resize to 7.5. I also realize that you can buy surplus and factory loaded ammo in this caliber. I have boxer primed brass in this caliber along with several boxes of Norma factory ammo and about 250 additonal rounds of Swiss surplus ammo. I am doing this just for the heck of it. I have to believe that pretty much all reloaders have thought twice about simply throwing away nice brass cases just because they are berdan primed. This may not be financially responsible, and it may be more trouble than it is worth, but I want to try it.

 

[444]

Another reason I started this thread is because I wanted to know the techniques used over the years to accomplish this. I particularly wanted to know how brass was deprimed using hydralics.
I find it facinating to read about how ammo is obtained in countries where it is either illegal to shoot or where access to ammo isn't easy. At various times and places, people reloaded whatever they could find. They pulled bullets and used powder and bullets in other calibers etc. They used powder from military cartridges with cast bullets ................................
I just find this interesting and would like to know more about it.

 

[YankeeClipper]

I have some berdan primers also. I keep them for the same reason. Postatity. I've got to tell you this story; 3 years ago a family was selling out an old reloaders stash. I got a pick-up load and a 1/2 for about 200 dollars. Talk about hogs heaven. Thats where it berdan primers came from.There is good berdan brass for a 7.62X54 Russian so as you learn keep my informed.

 

[Watchman]

444.

The "hydraulic" method of depriming is a fairly simple process.

In your case, you want to get a "punch" that is as close to the neck size as possible, preferably about a thousanth or too less than the diameter of the neck. All it has to be is a steel rod. Then you fill the case about 2/3 full of water. The depth of the water in the case is not important, I just dip them in a bowl of water and make sure that it is not full.

Set the case upon a a small metal or wooden block, one that will support the rim, but have small hole in it for the primer to drop into. I made mine out of a 1 inch thick piece of carbon steel that is about 2 inches square. With a drill press you drill a hole a bit larger than the primer and then counter bore with a drill a bit larger than the OD of the case. It helps if youre counterbore has a square shoulder.

Set the case in the block, insert the rod and smack it smartly with a hammer. Thats all there is too it. Be advised, it can get you wet. You'd be wise to put a washcloth around your punch when you wack it, it'll catch what little water ejects out of the case.

When you smack the rod, it takes up volume in the case and the water cant escape fast enough through the neck as a result it neatly pops the primer out. If you have a stubborn crimp, it might take a couple of wacks.

I tried this process several years ago jsut to see how much effort it took. I did it for awhile and then came to the conclusion that as long as we can get boxer primed cases it just wasnt worth the effort. However , in the event of a SHTF scenario where ammunition is no longer available, this process of decapping Berdan primed brass might be a good thing to know,as long as youve got powder, primers and bullets to go with it.

Hope this explains it enough.

 

[P95Carry]

Already some good input but .... let me give my info.

The pic shown below is of a ''Hydro Punch'' .... made in UK many moons ago and I have had this now over 20 years. The main part is a cylinder of brass, within which is a spring loaded plunger and piston (of stainless). This is filled with water.

The other end has a removable case insert (''nozzle'') ... here, the one in the devise is my home made one, for use in .303 cases .... also will work with .308 (the short stubby one on its own is for 9mm). The ''tub'' to the left is brass also and the machined depression in the top (lid) takes the appropriate support holder for your case . I made extras outa aluminium for simplicity. They all of course have a hole in the middle.

The method is ... place empty berdan case on support piece of tub .. place ''nozzle'' in case with a little pressure, and then whack the projecting plunger piece on the top, with a firm rubber hammer, or similar. The sudden rise in pressure forces a water stream down center of ''nozzle'' which impacts the primer and should push it out ... at which point primer and water discharge into the small tub for later disposal.

OK .... it's tedious .... and some spray comes outa the case mouth but ... it works, and well. Less so for crimped rifle cases ..... which are hard work ....... sometimes several whacks are needed ..... sometimes .... give up!!

The Lyman tool works but ... for me not very well ....... very hard work on mil surp .303 brass.

I used to do a lot of 9mm .. partly cos I had loadsa cases in berdan .... and also, 1,000's of primers too. Now i don't bother any more cos plenty of boxer cases.

It is mostly now a way to prepare .303 cases .. which I reload in part with cast bullets .... and I was lucky enough to aquire a useful number of berdan primers ... both the std large and also the ''huge'' 1/4" ones that the oldest cases took. Once these are gone I guess it'll be boxer only tho .. I believe ''Old Western Scrounger'' still sells berdans.

Hope this adds some more info for ya 444.

 

[Watchman]

Good info there P95Carry,

I've never seen or heard of that particular tool. I learn something new everyday !

 

[444]

Thanks for the replies, keep them coming. I am glad to see some other people who are willing to experiment and do a little something "out of the box".

 

[cheygriz]

Several years ago there was a device that used a boxer primer to remove a spent Bedan primer. the primer was placed in a cylinder, the cylinder was placed inside the case, up against the web, and a "firing pin" was struck with a hammer. The explosive force of the boxer primer blew the Berdan primer our very neatly.

These were available commercially 20 or so years ago, but I haven't seem them in many years.

Does anyone know if they are still available? "Fitz" are you reading this thread?

Yes Fitz is reading this but I never got involved with Berddan except it was interesting that Berdan was an American and his primers were used overseas and Boxer was English I believe and his primer design was used here where our Government trusted civilians to reload their own ammo. No so overseas where civilians needed more control.

We just had an Internet groups shoot here near Sacramento and there was berdan rifle brass laying all over the place. Maybe I should pick some up for trading purposes.???

Fitz

 

[444]

So you have to use two primers for every case that you prime ? :banghead:

 

[cheygriz]

444,

Yep, you had to use two primers for every case.

But the ease of decapping the berdan case was well worth the cost of a boxer primer.

 

[444]

I got my order in today from Graff & Son including my RCBS Berdan Decapper and a set of Hornady dies in 7.5 Swiss. Within minutes of hitting the door I was decapping Berdan primers. The tool is more work than decapping Boxer primed cases of course, but it isn't bad. It consists of two parts. One part is nothing but a nice knurled rod that you use to hold the case. You just stick the rod in the case mouth. The other part is another rod with a pivoting head. You hook the pivoting part over the case rim, then you position a spike in the firing pin dent of the primer. You push down and it pops the primer right out. It took three wasted cases to adjust the spike. Too long and it damages the anvil, too short and it won't pop out the primer. So, I now have about 100 deprimed and resized cases. I now need to get the primers.

 

[444]

Watchman
I am sorry but I some how missed your post until now. That is how I figured it was done, there wouldn't be much else you could do. I wonder if instead of using a hammer, if you could use your press to push the rod into the case ?

 

[Watchman]

It might be a little slow, but if youve got one I would try it.